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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch Feature: Mars War Logs - Review

Default RPGWatch Feature: Mars War Logs - Review

May 6th, 2013, 04:20
Wow, this thread got heated pretty quick.

In my opinion, I've seen better reviews and I've seen worse.

For what it's worth, I think Fluent did alright for his first review. And he's just going to get better over time.

Keep it up, Fluent!
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May 6th, 2013, 09:00
I think it's a good move by Myrthos and the team that they want to try to get more articles and asked for contributors from the readership (see the "Writing fro RPGWatch" thread). The site can definitely profit from more articles. I think it is to be expected that this will result in a bit more variability in quality compared to what we are used to until new writers have gained some experience and found their stride. But I think it will profit the site in the long run, especially if it also results in more variety of opinions.
I am myself interested in contributing something down the line, and several others have expressed thei interest - therefore partly in self-interest I'll repeat what others have already said: Criticism is good, but let's keep it constructive.
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May 6th, 2013, 12:07
Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl View Post
I appreciate the kind words. I won't promise anything but you never know, I might surprise you (and myself) one day.

But I would have to violate one of my sacred rules: Never play a game before it is sufficiently patched. (Patience is a virtue that really pays off in PC gaming ).
No need to thank me

No matter what you may think of me - you can always expect my 100% honest opinion - and you're well articulated, no doubt.

Take e.g. this sentence of yours:
Rest asssured, I'll be right here ready to comment on such a review. So - what are you waiting for?
I perceive here a well exposed desire to lure me into a trap so that you can strike me down hard without any mercy and gloat over it .
That's aggression, really?

Well - I hope that our later exchange where we both put in smileys serves to demonstrate my actual attitude.

It was a just a reminder relating to the effort it takes to write a review that's going to be well received. Sort of a hint with some intended humor. Sorry if that came out as aggression - as it was anything but.

Again, I'm truly not a very aggressive person. I AM blunt and not very cordial, though.

Yes, we talked about this before but it is a different topic altogether, one that would result in an endless exchange of well argumented opinions with no chance of convergence .
Oh, I've had that very same conversation more times than I can count.

I've been called anything from a Nazi to clearly suffering from Aspergers syndrome. I understand the temptation to label me in that way, because it would be a comfortable explanation.

But I'm not a National Socialist - and I have far too much empathy and social awareness to qualify for Asperger
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May 6th, 2013, 12:14
Oh, are we talking about D'Artagnan again?
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May 6th, 2013, 12:22
What a shock

Sorry - I hope you can forgive us.
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May 6th, 2013, 13:55
Since Fluent usually finds merit in games that many here loath, I can only assume Mars must pretty much suck the big one. Thanks for the heads up Fluent. Sorry you were attacked by the Codex trolls and sadly by some in our own community *but* rest assured this will not go down as the most controversial review in our history. After all, Mike liked Dungeon Lords and immortalized his opinion and thus shall he be forever remembered! .

"For Innos!"
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May 6th, 2013, 14:30
The "attack" by some in our own community, in fact probably just me, was supposed to be a constructive one, not trolling.
His review is not controversial at all, he didn't like what he saw and he searched for specific stuff while partially or completely ignoring some other game aspects, and that's it. But to be honest here, when it comes to this game, his task was tough. It ain't a disaster so you can spit on anything and can't miss it, on the other hand it ain't AAA title so you can find enough stuff to praise.
Experience however brings quality, let's wait and see his next review.

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May 7th, 2013, 01:11
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
There are many good & intelligent posters on the Codex. (Felipepepe, Jaesun, Elwro, LundB, Strife79 … many more)
Unfortunately they have some people that troll for sport. And they expect you to troll back, if not you are "weak". Even normal answers will be interpreted as passive trolling. So many discussions are ending in personal attacks, if you don't react they get even angrier…
But most of the Codexians care for crpgs and that's good.
Calling me a troll instead of arguing my points is the exact reason I don't hang out on this place.

Incidentally, I like the good people you quoted, and I count myself among their delightful kind. For sharing my thoughts in this thread, I've received little but name-calling and personal attacks. Read my posts and the responses to it and ask yourself again who is kicking the ball and who is kicking the player.

If every disagreement here ends by people calling each other trolls, I'm not sure I see the point.

Originally Posted by Corwin
When I lock 'em, they STAY LOCKED!! Don't push your luck!!!!
Last edited by Grunker; May 7th, 2013 at 01:57.
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May 7th, 2013, 01:42
Actually very few end that way. Mostly we agree to disagree most of the time. Some very stubborn posters here.
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May 7th, 2013, 02:09
Originally Posted by Grunker View Post
Calling me a troll instead of arguing my points is the exact reason I don't hang out on this place.

Incidentally, I like the good people you quoted, and I count myself among their delightful kind. For sharing my thoughts in this thread, I've received little but name-calling and personal attacks. Read my posts and the responses to it and ask yourself again who is kicking the ball and who is kicking the player.

If every disagreement here ends by people calling each other trolls, I'm not sure I see the point.
Maybe you didn't notice that a significant portion of this thread is mostly criticism? As such, I don't think your points will be argued. However, the severity of the criticism can be debated.

P.S. Ending a post with "Tsk tsk" can be construed as being trollish if not pretentious.
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May 7th, 2013, 02:25
Grunker, I thought this thread was about Mars: War Logs.
If by some chance I'm mistaken, please provide an argument. Thanks in advance.

And while Grunker is browsing his documentation about "RPGwatch feature: Grunker - review" to prove me wrong…
Did anyone try both paths? I can't say the one is more satisfying than another, in fact it seems to me that they've made them equally good. Or bad if you disliked the game.

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May 7th, 2013, 02:43
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
"RPGwatch feature: Grunker - review" to prove me wrong…
I'm fine posting reviews, interviews and content pieces for 'dex, thank you. But seeing as you once again decided to kick the player, I think I'll rest my case.

Originally Posted by Corwin
When I lock 'em, they STAY LOCKED!! Don't push your luck!!!!
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May 7th, 2013, 04:10
Originally Posted by Grunker View Post
I'm fine posting reviews, interviews and content pieces for 'dex, thank you. But seeing as you once again decided to kick the player, I think I'll rest my case.
Grunker, honestly speaking, I don't think anybody would mind you (or any Codexer) guest-writing a review or article for the Watch.

Despite all the friendly and not-so-friendly jibes directed at the Codex, nobody can deny that a lot of lucid and intelligent folks reside there.

Personally, I'd always appreciate a different perspective or opinion. So long that it is articulated in a civil manner
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May 7th, 2013, 04:24
I think this review was a fine intelligent and lucid review.

If you don't stand behind your troops, feel free to stand in front.
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May 7th, 2013, 04:52
Ok, I hate to pile on here, because I really do appreciate Fluent for the fact that he's out to have fun playing video games, whatever that looks like, and doesn't get so caught up as others do in how things need to look a certain way for them to be an acceptable form of entertainment. I appreciate that, and can relate as I've loved lots of games that get panned on here. As an example, I was right there with him waving the flag for KoA, and had high hopes (although our opinions parted ways after release, as my hopes were heavily dashed about 10-20 hours in due to obscene balancing and level-scaling issues that made the game laughably easy).

But despite my respect for Fluent as an open-minded gamer that just wants to have fun as long as it's fun, I have to be honest….I winced when I saw him featured as a reviewer on the Watch. And the reason why is a forum post he made just 5 months ago, in January of this year:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19282

I now have a functioning laptop with a decent (integrated) graphics card and I'd like to start gaming on it. The question is, which games do I play? The only PC RPGs I've played are Diablo, Diablo 2 and a few other older games I don't remember.

Which RPG should I start with? I'm thinking about Gothic 1 but I heard the controls are a little awkward. Baldur's Gate is a thought and the enhanced edition might be perfect for me. Neverwinter Nights looks interesting but I know nothing about it. Some more modern ones looked interesting too, like Drakensang I think it's called?

I'm also interested in any RPGs I can play with a USB controller (my 360 controller should work, right?).

Any suggestions appreciated. Bonus points for games that I can play with a controller. Super extra bonus points for co-op games.

Thanks!
(bold added by me).

Call me crazy, but I would think that a site that has spent YEARS bringing us the very best in news and info on the single-player PC RPG front would want to feature a review from somebody who has actually…you know….played single-player PC RPGs!

I'm really not trying to criticize Fluent, as I'm all for people enjoying whatever they enjoy. But I _AM_ criticizing this site for taking such a large left turn in presenting an official site review from somebody who is simply not representative of the folks who frequent this site.

Since I had some context for where the reviewer was coming from, I knew to take this review with a HUGE grain of salt, and basically quietly ignored it. And it's a shame that I should have to do that from the site that I probably trust more than any other to tell it like it is when it comes to the gaming genre that I love above all others. This is the site that I visit to get AWAY from the reviews complaining about stupid stories that throw out all sorts of places as if you should know them, causing me to quietly smirk as I wonder if the person bothered to pick up the manual and educate themselves on the game lore, or look for in-game lore books, etc. You know, do things that maybe aren't needed in your typical console game…

Again, I hate to come down so harshly on the guy. Hell, I also prefer games that I can play with a controller on my big screen, and I am also always on the lookout for co-op games I can play with my wife, and I did in fact love Diablo 2. Going even further into the realm of blasphemy, I was also never that much of a fan of the Infinity Engine games. For these and plenty of other reasons, I'm pretty sure that I should probably never be featured as a reviewer on this site.

And thus ends my 2 cents on this little firestorm….now I'm going to go back to playing Lord of the Rings Online, which Fluent's recent enthusiasm in the forum turned me on to (I'm serious).
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May 7th, 2013, 07:09
The reviewer just should make clear where his personal preferences in crpgs lie.

Certainly it is easier to be "objective" if you have played more than 100 crpgs in your life. I'm a hardcore crpg player and hate casual games like Diablo, Gothic 4,… but I have no problems with reading reviews from people with other opinions.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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May 7th, 2013, 09:30
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Sorry you were attacked by the Codex trolls and sadly by some in our own community
To form a community, you must share something in common.

Cant be posting on the same forum else the "codex trolls" would be part of the community.
Cant be an indefectible love for RPGs since it is a mere catch word that wargamers and narrative game players over.
Cant be a passion for label without concern for content since I post on here.

Cant see that community.
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May 7th, 2013, 09:55
If we're exclusively aiming for gamers with a lot of experience (singleplayer or not) - I see two issues:

1. Determining what level of experience is required - and how to measure it.
2. Communicating successfully to the audience without experience.

You see, not all people who read reviews are as experienced as many of us are around here - and several here are obviously not "hardcore". Some people will not get much from a "hardcore" review - because they have no experience with the history of gaming and will not appreciate deep or complex mechanics if the game doesn't provide the things they're used to - otherwise.

I will not interfere with how Watch operates - and I'm perfectly ok with the decision to make it an exclusively hardcore/enthusiast site. Just as long as we realise the potential consequences.

On a personal note, I like being open to gamers of all kinds. Obviously, this is an RPG site - so that should be the focus. But, beyond that, I don't see why we should not allow less experienced and less "hardcore" people have their say.

I'm an enthusiast gamer and I have as much experience with gaming as it's possible to have for a person of my age. Even so - I'm fully capable of recognising when a reviewer isn't speaking to me - and I'm fully capable of not using it for guidance.

But that's me, and as I said - I have no right to speak for anyone else.

I look at Codex as a site that's much more exclusive - and there's a reason I don't visit very often.
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May 7th, 2013, 13:34
Yeah the last thing we need is another Codex. Vulgarity aside its far too entrenched to get a balanced perspective on games. That reminds me a bit of a comment Siskel and Ebert made in the 90's regarding movie reviews. After decade of bashing adventure, horror and scifi genre's they decided to factor in whether the movie was fun to watch into their scoring. Since games are supposed to be fun (whether casual or full on hardcore RPG) that should be a factor no? Fluent brings a different lens to the mix so it is welcome, a break from the crotchety old establishment longing for the days of Lord British and the original Eye of the Beholder.

"For Innos!"
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May 7th, 2013, 14:17
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Since games are supposed to be fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lit0xPh_v5c

Originally Posted by Corwin
When I lock 'em, they STAY LOCKED!! Don't push your luck!!!!
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