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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics & Religion » Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

View Poll Results - What do you think about Snowden's actions?

It needed to be done - the government is overstepping its bounds. 25 92.59%
His actions were illegal -the programs are in place to combat crime and we don't need to fear them. 2 7.41%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

Default Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

June 12th, 2013, 22:01
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Really? even if they purposely convinced that person to commit a crime and put themselves and others at risk? You have a very irresponsible sense of right and wrong.
You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true. The most irresponsible thing our society has done is take away the concept of personal responsibility and let everyone blame someone else for their shortcomings.

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June 12th, 2013, 22:11
It certainly is true. If you convince someone to commit a crime in this country, you can be put in jail for it. Your irresponsible point of view is EXACTLY what's wrong with "so called" personal responsibility concerns of the right. Their basis is in selfish motivations.
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June 12th, 2013, 23:29
Sure it's probably not going to win any morality awards, but what they did wasn't illegal. The fact of the matter is that a lot of what is needed to win the information war is going to take place in grey areas of varying degrees.
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June 13th, 2013, 10:08
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
This sums up my feelings:


That is a very limited interpretation. So the sight of a guy who betrays the trust placed in him by an organization in charge of protecting the American public is not supposed to give comfort to the enemy, whoever that enemy is?
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June 13th, 2013, 14:03
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
EVERYONE should be appalled that (a) in the government reaction to 9/11 we did exactly what everyone said 'would let the terrorists win' (i.e. massive government police state build-up) (b) none of it has gone away.

Actually I find it more interesting to see all the right-wingers who were all 'rah rah patriotism, combat terror, you can't be against this if you have nothing to hide' when it was shown just how deep the Bush administration had gone in this area (i.e. none of this is really new), who are all now 'OMG this is awful'.

It WAS awful, IS awful and always will be awful.
Very well said, my thoughts exactly.

I always figured the FBI, NSA, CIA etc had access to Google, Facebook and similar, but I honestly expected such access to be limited by a court order or similar. Checking out the data of a suspect and that sort of thing.

The actual scope, however, shows extreme paranoia, turning everyone into suspects. It's madness, and someone needs to shut this down as soon as possible. Also, I hope Snowden is protected as I really feel the world has a right to know that practically everything done online is stored and available to the US government.
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June 13th, 2013, 19:03
The content of email is limited by court order, but not the "meta-data", (e.g. the sender and receiver, time stamping, etc….).
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June 13th, 2013, 20:05
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
The content of email is limited by court order, but not the "meta-data", (e.g. the sender and receiver, time stamping, etc….).
But there is a series of letters where the FBI has been trying to change that already, and secretly they have the info and just do whatever they want. They actively search every phone call and every email already.

There's actually nothing new revealed by snowden it's a badly kept secret, it's the only time anyone has revealed it in a way that can be confirmed.

It's funny conservatives are upset now that obama has that power. That's the point, though. That power is there for any president. Nixon, Obama, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. And virtually anyone would be in serious trouble if one of them got it, even if they idolize one or more of those stated.
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June 13th, 2013, 20:16
They aren't supposed to look at the content of emails without a court order. If they are, they are in violation of the law, and should be prosecuted. Warrant-less wiretapping is apparently a different thing.
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June 14th, 2013, 10:32
The local newspaper just told me that "because of an massive lobbying campaign" in this January, the EU deleted a passage in their laws, which would make this data collecting illegal.

Yes, it's legal now ! And the U.S. government wanted it to be so !

I was shocked after I read this.

I feel both tricked and … treasoned (is this the right word ?). I feel treasoned by the U.S. government - they were ACTIVELY seeking to undemine the EU's laws !

First the U.S. government FORCES the EU to transfer ALL flight passenger data from those who want to fly into the U.S. into the U.S. - and NOW they're collecting EVERYTHING !

I never felt this much insulted since George W. Bush called all those countries who were not positive towards his plans to invade Iraq as "The Old Europe".

http://dict.leo.org suggests the wording "sold down the river". I'm not totally sure what it means, but it goes into the right direction.

The U.S. government as a body is acting more and more paranoid.

The newspaper says that the original report regarding the "massive U.S. lobbying campaign" came from the Financial Times.

The article can be found here, but it is behind a paywall.

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June 14th, 2013, 10:41
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
an organization in charge of protecting the American public is
Protecting the American Public from whom ? Me ? I'm German. My data might be there, too !

As well as the data of some of the staff of RPGWatch !

This is nothing but insulting ! An U.S. organization claims to protect the american public by criminalizing EVERY EUROPEAN CITIZEN !

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June 14th, 2013, 11:30
Did Snowden break the law? Absolutely. Just like Stauffenberg did when he tried to blow up Hitler. Unfortunately what's right isn't always law, and what's law isn't always right.

Should Snowden be punished? Well, that depends on one's opinion and it's pretty moot to debate that. Personally I think he should get a medal, but hey, that's just me.

Aside from that, many people aren't even aware of what the US government and its agencies can and can not do. This article here explains for example another little-known fun fact: Government Can Also Track Your Postal Mail. Just two juicy excerpts from that article:

"… any information appearing on the outside "mail cover" of any class of U.S. mail can be gathered and shared without a warrant."

and

"However, the contents of discount or "media rate" mail - second-, third-, and fourth-class mail - can be accessed without a warrant, because discount rate mail should not contain personal correspondence. In addition, international parcel post mail and mail without adequate postage affixed can be opened without a warrant."

Nice, right? I guess soon the only thing you can hide from the US government is whether you own a gun.
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June 14th, 2013, 11:56
You Yanks should remember a little history!! America was 'founded' by a group of traitors!!!! Think about it!! You rebelled and committed treason against YOUR rightful government. If you'd lost the war (and you should, but England didn't really take it seriously enough) then all your founding fathers would have been hanged for treason!!!! It's in the blood don't you know!!!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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June 14th, 2013, 12:01
Despite not being a U.S. citizen I voted "the government is overstepping its bounds.". That would be my reaction if such things would happen in France. As a matter of fact we already had slightly similar problems here with journos being taped illegally by the Elysée (our local white house ) ). That kind of affairs always reminds me about the quote from Benjamin Franklin talking about trading liberties for security…
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June 14th, 2013, 16:38
I love the news in China after this! U.S. has been threatening China to stop importing chinese computer services and so on because of hacking and security risks.

Now the news is all over China:

Snowden has revealed "USA has been hacking China for years" now how is that for double standards?
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June 14th, 2013, 21:13
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Snowden has revealed "USA has been hacking China for years" now how is that for double standards?
No double standard … US is hacking China 'for the greater good', China is hacking because they are evil!

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June 14th, 2013, 21:21
"But mom, I was hacking China first! No fair!" - US
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June 14th, 2013, 21:32
Y'alls just jealous cuz we didn't get caught hacking like the Chinese did. Yet more proof that Americans are the best at everything.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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June 14th, 2013, 22:02
Based on the likes of Stuxnet and Flame, I'd be interested to know what we've been using on more advanced nations like China.

EDIT: But, yeah, we definitely win at the internet. Home field advantage, I guess.
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June 14th, 2013, 22:03
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
The newspaper says that the original report regarding the "massive U.S. lobbying campaign" came from the Financial Times.

The article can be found here, but it is behind a paywall.
Once campaign contributions from any old source became legal politics went to hell, you can just outright buy votes.
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June 15th, 2013, 06:49
5:33, "snowden…dribs and drabs…donated to ron paul presidential campaign" ….ha ha ha. the only time RP mentioned in "positive" light in MSNBC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT3bj…ature=youtu.be

"insider" warning about gov computer surveillance from 1984, in the raygun era.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=dkRu6BctHWk

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