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Default Gamasutra - Sexism and Sexuality In Games

June 22nd, 2013, 11:44
CDV (the original publisher of "Divine Divinity") did this, more or less. Look out for "Lula".
http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/lula-games

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June 22nd, 2013, 11:50
I haven't played any Lula game, but I doubt they aspire to be serious and mature RPGs
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June 22nd, 2013, 11:55
Adult CRPG: NWN1 Module by Valine (Module of the year 2006)

A Dance With Rogues Part One
A Dance With Rogues Part Two

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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June 22nd, 2013, 12:01
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
I haven't played any Lula game, but I doubt they aspire to be serious and mature RPGs
I think that this is exactly the point - or one of them - How do you actually do it ? There simply is no experience with game makers for that.

But still - seeing that "Lula" appears to be so much "immature" - doesn't fit this into "games" rather/better than "serious sex" ? How would you define "serious sex", anyway ?

Games are meant for playing.
Games are meant to be played.
"Playing", however, is in my opinion NEVER something serious. War is serious, but not playing.

Any "serious and mature RPG" won't give me the sense of Escapism I'm seeking when I play games. It just would disturb my Escapism by putting too much RL into it.
And I really don't know/understand why people want to play games for NOT perform some sort of Escapism.

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June 22nd, 2013, 12:24
Mature and fun is possible (see above).

Normally I play male characters, but once in a while I enjoy to roleplay as a female character. That is escaping for me, play another interesting different role in a fantasy world than your role in real life.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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June 22nd, 2013, 12:26
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Normally I play male characters, but once in a while I enjoy to roleplay as a female character. That is escaping for me, play another interesting different role in a fantasy world than your role in real life.
Same here. That's the reason why I prefer romance/ sex to be only hinted at. Scoring cutscene sex with a female character is even less interesting to me than with a male char.

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June 22nd, 2013, 12:36
I escape much better when something is mature or treated with a serious and knowledgeable approach.

Even if something is light-hearted, I need a cerebral intention behind it - as I find juvenile humor excessively dull at length.
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June 22nd, 2013, 12:51
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I escape much better when something is mature or treated with a serious and knowledgeable approach.

Even if something is light-hearted, I need a cerebral intention behind it - as I find juvenile humor excessively dull at length.
I agree - I don't see any essential difference between games and other forms of entertainment such as books, films, paintings or whatever. It's just that I think some people are confusing a somewhat superficial nod in the direction of "social issues" with the kind of writing that can make you look at things, such as the plight of others, from a new perspective. That's a problem which is hardly unique to video games though.
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June 22nd, 2013, 14:15
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
How do you actually do it ? There simply is no experience with game makers for that.
Exactly. It would be a challenge.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But still - seeing that "Lula" appears to be so much "immature" - doesn't fit this into "games" rather/better than "serious sex" ? How would you define "serious sex", anyway ?
I was talking about a serious, mature RPG about sex. The game should take sex seriously, which is not the same as the sex being "serious". Imagine a game where sex is an essential activity, like combat in a more traditional RPG. Your character could have sexual skills and traits, rather than skills and traits geared towards fighting. Why not magic too? Sexual magic.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Any "serious and mature RPG" won't give me the sense of Escapism I'm seeking when I play games. It just would disturb my Escapism by putting too much RL into it.
I wasn't thinking RL at all. By "serious" I mean that sex should not be thrown in for laughs or titilation alone (though it could possibly be both fun and titillating) but be an essential part of a proper game.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
And I really don't know/understand why people want to play games for NOT perform some sort of Escapism.
Actually, what I pictured when making my initial comment was escapist indeed; something like a game based upon Piers Anthony's Cluster series, where your character would have to figure out an alien culture and its sexuality, come to understand what turns the aliens on and learn how to perform satisfying alien sex.
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June 22nd, 2013, 14:21
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
Imagine a game where sex is an essential activity, like combat in a more traditional RPG.
I can. It's p. underwhelming.

Sexual magic.
Sexual… heeeaaaaaling


Before people worry about how to make player characters engage in sexual activity, they should flesh out the gameworld in this regard. One reason why sex in games is ridiculous it because it always centers around the protagonist, rather than being an organic element in the world. Hell, a lot of games don't even have children in them.

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June 22nd, 2013, 14:35
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
The game should take sex seriously, which is not the same as the sex being "serious". Imagine a game where sex is an essential activity, like combat in a more traditional RPG. Your character could have sexual skills and traits, rather than skills and traits geared towards fighting. Why not magic too? Sexual magic.
So instead of str, int, wil etc you'd have a bunch of sexual attributes such as penis length and/or breast size? In any case, Stamina & Charisma would still be pretty essential attributes, especially the former in a long sexual gaming session, I would imagine. Maybe we could get Monte Cook to have a go at a ruleset when he's finished with Tides?
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June 22nd, 2013, 17:32
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
Imagine a game where sex is an essential activity, like combat in a more traditional RPG. Your character could have sexual skills and traits, rather than skills and traits geared towards fighting. Why not magic too? Sexual magic.
The way you put it makes it sound like porn to me…
I believe it's feasible but rare even in more mature media.

I do think there have been games that used sexuality in a 'serious' way, though not as an obvious essential activity as such. Bloodlines comes to mind - you don't see the act but the game is full of sexual themes, both very subtle and very blatant.

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June 22nd, 2013, 18:03
Just play A Dance with Rogues and see how seducement, lust, sex, love can be build in a good crpg.

Recommended!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
Last edited by HiddenX; June 22nd, 2013 at 18:55.
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June 22nd, 2013, 19:54
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Most people don't carry around signs that say what they want to fuck.
Speak for yourself. I have to carry the sign around, sometimes for days, before my wife will finally give it up.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 22nd, 2013, 19:58
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
How about a game that is mainly about sex? It would probably be insurmountably difficult to make a serious, mature RPG focused on sex, but I would like to play one.
I think you're right. Past attempts have ended up with this. Not that they were bad games. But certainly not serious.

Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Normally I play male characters, but once in a while I enjoy to roleplay as a female character.
I prefer to play undead. That perhaps speaks volumes as to what is wrong with me.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 22nd, 2013, 20:09
Just bought Crusader Kings 2, which is on sale on steam this weekend (75%!). Occurs to me that it is largely a game about sex, or at least bloodlines. Seems to me an exemplary way of handling mature themes, in that it is set firmly in the age it is simulating and doesn't pander to political correctness or gloss over human frailty.

King of Dragon Pass was is another game that handles sexual themes rather well in my opinion too - only game worth playing on IOS, I've found so far (is of course a reamke of a PC game).
Last edited by Roq; June 22nd, 2013 at 20:19.
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June 23rd, 2013, 08:50
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
Speak for yourself. I have to carry the sign around, sometimes for days, before my wife will finally give it up.
I commend you

Most guys in longer marriages have to take their wives to dinner and romance them every which way before she gets in the mood.

The sign thing sounds a lot easier - cheaper!

As I recall from my longest relationship, I opted to just get cranky and do without. That's what being hard-headed gets ya: nothing but your pride for company - and that's not very warm at all
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June 23rd, 2013, 10:31
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
The way you put it makes it sound like porn to me…
I believe it's feasible but rare even in more mature media.
Yes. Very rare. For some reason, sex is extremely difficult to portray convincingly in any media. Sex scenes in regular movies usually come across as embarrassingly bad, and I find straight pornography downright insulting most of the time.

But each medium has its own strengths. And I actually think that games and erotica would be a perfect fit. Why? Because sex and what turns you on is a very personal thing. And compared to books and movies, games excel at creating a personal experience.

So, why are erotic video games not huge then? One: video games are for kids. It's not true, but still a widespread misconception and a big hurdle in the mainstream. Two: Cost. Having real people going at it in front of a camera is incredibly cheap compared to creating a quality game. And since the porn industry is highly profitable, lots of people must be content with that crap.
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June 23rd, 2013, 10:48
Sex is also incredibly boring unless you're actually doing it. Well, at least to me.

I mean porn is fine and serves its purpose - but to actually sit down and play a sex game would be a complete waste of time, as far as I'm concerned.
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June 23rd, 2013, 11:10
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Adult CRPG: NWN1 Module by Valine (Module of the year 2006)

A Dance With Rogues Part One
A Dance With Rogues Part Two
Those mods are nothing but porn with plot. I guess there a good example that it can be done I guess. There are a few more nwn 1+2 mods like those also.

Still many would be offended by the content in these mods.

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