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Default Gamasutra - Sexism and Sexuality In Games

June 24th, 2013, 01:12
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
This discussion is more complicated than it needs to be.

Why would I give a shit about sex in games when that's something I can do in real life?

No, I'd much rather be doing things that I could only fantasize about doing in reality - like flying a spacecraft or doing battle with a mythical beast.
I'm too lazy to type, but this was my thought as well. I enjoy the little porno elements of The Witcher series, but a game about romancing a lady to get in her pants is real life, not a game.
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June 24th, 2013, 02:26
Then how about romancing a lady that is so exceptional in some way that it wouldn't be possible to get into her pants in real life? Like, say, an alien or a mythical goddess or just someone who is just not on your league? Would that make all the difference?

Because if it wouldn't then combat in games is equally pointless since you can always find a way to do it in real life too - take up a martial art or hunting or paintball or start fights in bars or join the army…

But maybe you don't want to get to all that trouble or even risk hurting yourself when all you need to be satisfied is a taste of simulated, virtual violence? Fair enough… In that case maybe you wouldn't want to ditch or cheat on your significant other, to get a variety of experiences, if you could be satisfied by a taste or simulated, virtual sex.


BTW, despite the above I still maintain that 'about sex' does not equal porn and in fact sexual arousal isn't even a necessary ultimate goal. For instance, can't a game be about sex and still have combat in it like a game can be about an unlikely hero saving the world from monsters without any combat?

"I am not interested in good; I am interested in new, even if this includes the possibility of it's being evil"
(LaMonte Young, 1962)
Last edited by holeraw; June 24th, 2013 at 02:58.
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June 24th, 2013, 04:36
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
Because if it wouldn't then combat in games is equally pointless since you can always find a way to do it in real life too - take up a martial art or hunting or paintball or start fights in bars or join the army…
Really? Can you also point out where I could find a chimera or perhaps a gelatinous cube?


Of course I could use a lot of other examples, but I think I deserve bonus points for mentioning the gelatinous cube.
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June 24th, 2013, 04:42
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I commend you

Most guys in longer marriages have to take their wives to dinner and romance them every which way before she gets in the mood.

The sign thing sounds a lot easier - cheaper!

As I recall from my longest relationship, I opted to just get cranky and do without. That's what being hard-headed gets ya: nothing but your pride for company - and that's not very warm at all
17 years of marriage and still 5+ times a week. It's all about communication and getting a woman in the right mind set. Turn on her mind and her body will follow.

As for sex in games I don't need it. If they incorporate it into the story plausibly then fine but I don't want to run around giving every girl gifts just to bed them.
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June 24th, 2013, 07:57
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
And yes, I think micromanagement prior to seduction could be just as fun as micromanagement prior to combat. Hey, I'm willing to try micromanagement in a gardening simulator. I bet there would be a huge market for a good gardening simulator.
I'm sure you think so

Cop-out? I just answered your ridiculous claim about "stimulating the senses". Imagination is what matters. Try again.
My claim wasn't ridiculous, because it made sense. You're not making any sense. If imagination is all you need to stimulate yourself - then why are you talking about this game again?

The porn discussion is a side note, really. But I do think that sex could play a more important role in games. People who claim that sex is anything but interesting are usually prudes. What's your excuse?
I don't think I need an excuse.

I haven't said sex isn't interesting - though I imagine it could have been an effective strawman against an idiot.

I said sex isn't interesting if you're not doing it - at least not very much so. I guess it can be interesting in an educational way - or if you're talking to someone who you intend to have sex with. But as the basis of a game? No, I don't think it is.

Prude? Hehe, well - that would be a first. I'm more of a pervert, I'd say - but I guess I'm pretty normal overall in that way.

No more waste of time than creating an entire game with sophisticated gameplay that doesn't turn people on.
I'm afraid I can't agree. I can enjoy such games tremendously - and it seems many are quite successful.
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June 24th, 2013, 07:57
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
17 years of marriage and still 5+ times a week. It's all about communication and getting a woman in the right mind set. Turn on her mind and her body will follow.
Actually, I think it's about the people and their compatibilty more than anything
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June 24th, 2013, 08:15
I like to look at sexy female models in games, but once you cross the line into actual sex - it becomes just laughingly bad.

Witcher is a perfect example, Triss ( and actually most of the females of the game) are nice to look at. In fact I play a female character the majority of the time because, well, theyre nice to look at.

But looking it is about all I want to do in a game, once they start getting "romantic" or sexual it's just.. embarassing. I'm embarassed for the people who made the game.

I enjoy some pretty hilariously hardcore smut. But toons doing it, eh… probably makes me blush.
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June 24th, 2013, 08:33
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My claim wasn't ridiculous, because it made sense. You're not making any sense. If imagination is all you need to stimulate yourself - then why are you talking about this game again?
Your claim was ridiculous because you were comparing sex in a game with real life sex. And you acccuse me of a cop out? Of course no activity in a game measure up to real life.

To remind you, here is your ridiculous statement again:
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I don't think the same is the case for sex simulation at all - because there's no way to stimulate the senses that's convincing enough - and the frustration level can potentially be quite high.
That's simply too much to ask.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I haven't said sex isn't interesting - though I imagine it could have been an effective strawman against an idiot.
I got the wrong impression from these quotes then:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It's not interesting enough to warrant this level of attention.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Sex is also incredibly boring unless you're actually doing it.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
…to actually sit down and play a sex game would be a complete waste of time, as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
…my imagination tells me it would be extremely boring compared to a traditional RPG setting.
All wich suggests that you are comparing sex in a game with sex in real life, which is ridiculous. Because you can say that about anything: It's better in real life.

Oh, here you go again:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I said sex isn't interesting if you're not doing it - at least not very much so.
I would like to claim that if it's interesting in real life, then it can be interesting in a game.
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June 24th, 2013, 08:56
From this thread, I can see 99% of the members in this forum = male

You guys do realise some people don't get any and really desperate, right?

Ok, on to the topic. I think it really depends on your age and personality

Kids obviously won't say no to it (plus those desperate people out there)!

For my part, I do enjoy well written romance or even a conversation between male & female characters in game. It's interesting to build a relationship with people with different personality and if the character in game is very different to our boring lives, hey, I won't say no For example, I enjoyed seeing Garrus and my FemShep entering relationship. I loved how my Bhaalspawn fell in love with Anomen (yes, Anomen is human but the lifestyle in Faerun is different to our modern city life). But as I said before, it doesn't have to end in romance To be honest, I hate it when the developers/modders take it too far and describe the sex scenes too vividly - makes game experience like a cheap pornography.

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June 24th, 2013, 09:15
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
Your claim was ridiculous because you were comparing sex in a game with real life sex. And you acccuse me of a cop out? Of course no activity in a game measure up to real life.
You should learn to follow these things - and how to logically separate concepts.

You seem to have some difficulty with that in general.

My point was EXACTLY that because sex is SO different in real life - any attempt to simulate it would be pointless. Well, except perhaps as an educational tool - but that's not really what we're talking about.

So, we agree - which is why it's really strange that you'd want to create an elaborate sex game.

It's like you're really confused.

To remind you, here is your ridiculous statement again:

That's simply too much to ask.
You were the one talking about driving games. I specifically pointed out that driving games can be effective simulations - because they're about adrenaline and excitement. They're not about realistically simulating a REAL driving experience - as all the annoying and boring details are removed.

However, even with a "serious" driving simulation - you can get reasonably close to the real thing - because technology is at a level where that can happen.

Sex involves stimulating MUCH MORE than just the brain - even if the brain is a vital component - and even if the brain is the MOST vital component. Without the sense of touch (for instance) - it's all but pointless to try and simulate.

When you're out driving a car - you're not actually touching the road - and you CAN get a wheel to give you a very realistic sense of driving for real. You don't need to be stimulated physically beyond that - to get a decent representation.

My claim is that you need more than what you can get from a game to stimulate yourself sexually - if it's to go beyond porn or simply a picture of a pair of breasts. If you're not aiming to go beyond - then what's the point?

Get it?

I got the wrong impression from these quotes then:
If your impression was that I think having sex is boring - then yeah, you definitely got the wrong impression.

I can't say I think much of your insight or your capacity to read - if you really think that was my position.

All wich suggests that you are comparing sex in a game with sex in real life, which is ridiculous. Because you can say that about anything: It's better in real life.
No, very far from everything is better in real life. For instance, a war game or a shooter is much "better" than real life - because your life isn't actually in danger. These games are not about simulating real life - but only those elements that are entertaining or positively exciting - like adrenaline and action.

You don't seem to understand the point of comparison. You don't necessarily compare things because you want to say the things in question are identical. In fact, it's VERY often the case that you compare things to point out how very different they are.

Again, you seem to have difficulty separating these things, logically.

Oh, here you go again:

I would like to claim that if it's interesting in real life, then it can be interesting in a game.
You don't have to repeat yourself over and over.

I understand that you think a sex game can be interesting enough to warrant a serious treatment as an RPG - or whatever it would be defined as.

That's quite alright with me - I just disagree, and I think a lot of people would.
Last edited by DArtagnan; June 24th, 2013 at 09:40.
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June 24th, 2013, 10:34
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
From this thread, I can see 99% of the members in this forum = male

You guys do realise some people don't get any and really desperate, right?
Believe me I know it's a curse being male, and thinking about sex all the time. We can't help it see.


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June 24th, 2013, 10:38
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
From this thread, I can see 99% of the members in this forum = male

You guys do realise some people don't get any and really desperate, right?

Ok, on to the topic. I think it really depends on your age and personality

Kids obviously won't say no to it (plus those desperate people out there)!

For my part, I do enjoy well written romance or even a conversation between male & female characters in game. It's interesting to build a relationship with people with different personality and if the character in game is very different to our boring lives, hey, I won't say no For example, I enjoyed seeing Garrus and my FemShep entering relationship. I loved how my Bhaalspawn fell in love with Anomen (yes, Anomen is human but the lifestyle in Faerun is different to our modern city life). But as I said before, it doesn't have to end in romance To be honest, I hate it when the developers/modders take it too far and describe the sex scenes too vividly - makes game experience like a cheap pornography.
Well written anything can be great in the right place - but that's not really what we're talking about, as far as I can see.

We're talking about gameplay and an entire game oriented around having sex or exploring sex.

I can't deny such a game can be fun - I just reserve the right to be EXTREMELY sceptical about it. It truly sounds like one of the dumbest ideas I've heard when it comes to game concepts.

Something that's sort of interesting as a fleeting thought - and that's about it

Then again, there are people playing (and presumably enjoying) fishing simulators and farming simulators, so who am I to speak against such things!
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June 24th, 2013, 10:49
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Really? Can you also point out where I could find a chimera or perhaps a gelatinous cube?
You can't fight a chimera or a gelatinous cube in real life like you can't have sex with a blue alien or a sorceress in real life.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I said sex isn't interesting if you're not doing it - at least not very much so.
I provided a list of films and HiddenX provided a list of books with and/or about sex. Are really none of them of interest you?

"I am not interested in good; I am interested in new, even if this includes the possibility of it's being evil"
(LaMonte Young, 1962)
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June 24th, 2013, 10:58
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
I provided a list of films and HiddenX provided a list of books with and/or about sex. Are really none of them of interest you?
Are they exclusively about sex? Then no, I have zero interest.

I find the topic trivial and boring - unless there's something new or insightful that can be consumed in a very short time.

A pamphlet could work, I suppose.

But an entire game or book? Oh god, no.
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June 24th, 2013, 11:16
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
You can't fight a chimera or a gelatinous cube in real life like you can't have sex with a blue alien or a sorceress in real life.
And you really think a significant amount of gamers would be interested in that?

Ok
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June 24th, 2013, 11:26
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
And you really think a significant amount of gamers would be interested in that?

Ok
No, I think the reason for that not being interesting is not that you can do it in real life.

Although a significant amount of gamers were interested in Mass Effects blue alien apparently…


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Are they exclusively about sex? Then no, I have zero interest.
I feel the need once more to point out that even though they are about sex none of them is actual porn. The act of sex itself might be boring to watch, but its significance as a drive, the way it affects human behavior and its consequences can be a lot less so.
But fair enough… You're missing out of course but then again everybody has their interests. I for example, haven't watched Godfather 2 & 3 because I can't find interest in Italian American mafia stories and I didn't even care for Apocalypse Now because I'm sick of hearing about the Vietnem war. I won't go to any lengths to explain why they are insignificant films though mind you - I doubt that's the case regardless of what they tell me.

"I am not interested in good; I am interested in new, even if this includes the possibility of it's being evil"
(LaMonte Young, 1962)
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June 24th, 2013, 11:34
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
I feel the need once more to point out that even though they are about sex none of them is actual porn. The act of sex itself might be boring to watch, but its significance as a drive, the way it affects human behavior and its consequences can be a lot less so.
But fair enough… You're missing out of course but then again everybody has their interests. I for example, haven't watched Godfather 2 & 3 because I can't find interest in Italian American mafia stories and I didn't even care for Apocalypse Now because I'm sick of hearing about the Vietnem war. I won't go to any lengths to explain why they are insignificant films though mind you - I doubt that's the case regardless of what they tell me.
I can separate the concepts of sex and porn, but thanks for thinking so highly of my capacity

Missing out? Maybe.

I wonder if it would make a difference if I told you that I've never had much trouble performing satisfactorily - and since I'm as much a pleaser as a taker (more so, actually) - I've done my own studying to get to where I am.

I rarely read entire books when I study a subject. I focus on concepts I don't understand - and I do some rather intense reading on those in particular. I also tend to observe from my own point of view and analyse in my own way, using my own experiences with human psychology and patterns.

Maybe if I encounter serious issues or I feel the need to expand my knowledge on the subject, I'll consider reading a book about it.

But I think it's much more likely that I'd just look it up online and focus on whatever particular issues or techniques I was curious about.

That said, I think sex is something that people tend to overcomplicate - and it's my experience that the more you actually experiment and move away from the natural "gifts" we've received, the less it actually helps to understand sex.

It's really not that complex in my experience.
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June 24th, 2013, 15:36
I would like a varied, mature RPG about sex, I think: when it's a co-op game.

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June 24th, 2013, 16:06
Now that I've thought about it, I'm actually looking forward to a co-op RPG with sex and sexuality. I'll play an Adonis - my male co-player may take it up on him to show me his boobs and complain about pregnancy or monthly misery.

A man should never be ashamed to own he has been wrong, which is but saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday - Alexander Pope
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June 24th, 2013, 19:27
@Omega
I can imagine to play a game like this with you - would be hilarious

***

About the books I mentioned:
Casanova - you can create an adventure series about his life - look here.
This guy was everywhere in Europe in the 18th century.

Felix Krull -> Con-Man story - only matched by the TV-series White Collar -> Neal Caffrey.

Empire Triology = the story of Mara, a female ruler in a fantasy world.

Sex and seducement is just an element in these stories, nothing more - nothing less.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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