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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics & Religion » Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

View Poll Results - What do you think about Snowden's actions?

It needed to be done - the government is overstepping its bounds. 25 92.59%
His actions were illegal -the programs are in place to combat crime and we don't need to fear them. 2 7.41%
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Default Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

June 15th, 2013, 13:31
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
It's in the blood don't you know!!!!

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 15th, 2013, 15:19
I continue to see Snowden articles (albeit fewer now given the American public's ADD-addled minds) condemning Snowden for his actions and his undermining of international relations.

And I was reminded of this William Durant quote:
A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within.
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June 15th, 2013, 21:20
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
I continue to see Snowden articles (albeit fewer now given the American public's ADD-addled minds) condemning Snowden for his actions and his undermining of international relations.
Blaming Snowden for undermining international relations is a bit like somebody complaining that revealing that he beats his wife will undermine his relations with neighbors…
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June 15th, 2013, 21:24
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Blaming Snowden for undermining international relations is a bit like somebody complaining that revealing that he beats his wife will undermine his relations with neighbors…
Actually Snowden is more like someone who goes and reports that the neighbor beats his wife, that they are running a meth lab, that they are prostituting their kids and there is more that can be told if the price is right … and all that is actually true is the domestic violence.

In other words, over the last week much of the stuff Snowden has been sayign has been shown to be either untrue or a stretch and the way he is positioning himself with China has the potential to be actually treasonous.

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June 15th, 2013, 22:31
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
In other words, over the last week much of the stuff Snowden has been sayign has been shown to be either untrue or a stretch…
Not that I don't believe you, but source?
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June 15th, 2013, 23:59
Originally Posted by abharsair View Post
Not that I don't believe you, but source?
This link has a number of linked sources …

http://www.businessinsider.com/edwar…na-2013-6?op=1

Still think that the idea of turning this around on the 'whistleblower' is lousy, and it happens so much that it makes the idea of BEING a whistleblower pretty terrible.

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June 16th, 2013, 01:22
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
This link has a number of linked sources …

http://www.businessinsider.com/edwar…na-2013-6?op=1

Still think that the idea of turning this around on the 'whistleblower' is lousy, and it happens so much that it makes the idea of BEING a whistleblower pretty terrible.
I don't want to argue the credibility of your source, but I have a few issues with it. For one, it's an opinion piece/editorial, not a news article. Even the linked "sources" are mostly opinion. Secondly, the points it tries to make are worded very carefully and opaque:

"This claim appears to have been wrong."

"This doesn't mean it's wrong, but it still seems like an exaggeration."

Notice the emphasized words. Phrases like that remind me of Fox News (please excuse the comparison). And lastly, the author seems to take the denials of government officials and companies as fact - which, as we can all agree on I hope, isn't proof at all.
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June 16th, 2013, 02:02
Don't disagree at all … just have to always keep in mind the motives of all involved.

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June 16th, 2013, 02:52
I think the USA has bigger issues to discuss than Snowden.

The prisoner abuse in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay.
The kidnapping and secret prisons in Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe.
The privacy breach in which the details of millions of European financial transactions were passed to US security services (SWIFT breach).
And now PRISM.
=>
The disrespect for human rights of those who are not American, whether friend or (assumed) foe, is the best way to secure more enemies and less friends.

BTW the NSA didn't even bother to ask permission to use an original photo as the PRISM logo…

A man should never be ashamed to own he has been wrong, which is but saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday - Alexander Pope
Last edited by Omega; June 16th, 2013 at 03:44.
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June 16th, 2013, 03:55
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
I think the USA has bigger issues to discuss than Snowden.
I would just start with the widespread support and acceptance of a state of 'perma-war'.

I think our military population is second only to our prison population …

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June 16th, 2013, 17:14
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I would just start with the widespread support and acceptance of a state of 'perma-war'.

I think our military population is second only to our prison population …
It's a convenient way for Obummer to prop up his unemployment numbers. Companies are legally obligated to maintain positions for all the deployed troops but have to hire new people to do the tasks in the meantime. And, to be fair, Dubya was pulling the same scam, although he didn't have crazy jobless numbers like Obummer had until recently.

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June 16th, 2013, 17:19
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
It's a convenient way for Obummer to prop up his unemployment numbers. Companies are legally obligated to maintain positions for all the deployed troops but have to hire new people to do the tasks in the meantime. And, to be fair, Dubya was pulling the same scam, although he didn't have crazy jobless numbers like Obummer had until recently.
Um, he CREATED the depression we have suffered from until recently. Nt defending Obummer, but direct blame is certainly attributable to the failed post Reagan economics. Never worked, never will. Oh, except for a very few people who can buy the government

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June 20th, 2013, 04:39
A progressive takes down regimist hack, Bob Schieffer. And the rest of the MSM whores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lauE…layer_embedded

By the way, if you really want bipartisanship, how about dividing between govs+lapdogs and the people like it stated in the constitution. Wake the F*&K up.

Daniel Ellsberg compares now and then…Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon would indeed not be a crook today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmx1G…ature=youtu.be

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Last edited by mudsling3; June 20th, 2013 at 08:14.
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June 21st, 2013, 12:10
I would think that bipartisanship as applied in a two party system refers to people working together to solve a common issue, not to any divide into two opposing groups.

The PRISM scandal is a good example though why any divide into uniform political blocks does not make sense. People should rather think for themselves instead of being bound by some party ideology. Of course, what tends to happen in the US in particular (but here in Europe as well, unfortunately) is that politicians are either government lapdogs, or lapdogs for one industrial complex or another, or both, but rarely have the judgement and moral compass to make decisions for the common good on their own.

I imagine many of those young, bright and idealistic people who moved Obama's electoral campaign into the age of computer modeling, modern communication and crowdsourcing must feel betrayed by his bid for indiscriminate communication surveillance and storage. I certainly would feel that way.
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June 21st, 2013, 12:26
Well the way to rule and control the world is by information now. I'm sure every government dreams of such a plan. Were moving into a digital age and this is the stuff that happens because of it.

Just remember this “Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.” A quote from one of my favorite games but applies to the topic.

"Beware the potato for he is easily angered."- Couchpotato
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June 24th, 2013, 00:16
Journalist vs "journalist" on journalism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGvR…ature=youtu.be

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June 24th, 2013, 03:28
Originally Posted by mudsling3 View Post
Journalist vs "journalist" on journalism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGvR…ature=youtu.be
Aiding and abetting… wow. The bias in American journalism has become so grotesque - and not just in regard to Snowden. It is sickening. A year back, I made a point to start using BBC for my news source and, while not perfect, it's much more neutral than the farce we have for news reporting in the States.
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June 25th, 2013, 17:19
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Blaming Snowden for undermining international relations is a bit like somebody complaining that revealing that he beats his wife will undermine his relations with neighbors…
Sadly, this is becoming par for the course in this country. Not the exact same thing, but along similar lines, look at the problems we have with police either having itchy trigger fingers (some idiot shot a fucking therapy dog in Texas last week) or when they beat up some homeless guy. It's never their fault, they're 'protecting' us, etc. Our government is out of control at all levels and they blame everyone but themselves.

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June 25th, 2013, 21:07
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Aiding and abetting… wow. The bias in American journalism has become so grotesque - and not just in regard to Snowden. It is sickening. A year back, I made a point to start using BBC for my news source and, while not perfect, it's much more neutral than the farce we have for news reporting in the States.
This is why I have pretty much given up on any American television news. It's all corporate owned and manipulated, MSNBC being the only outlier. But it's a bit out there sometimes.
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June 25th, 2013, 22:03
Originally Posted by mudsling3 View Post
Journalist vs "journalist" on journalism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGvR…ature=youtu.be
This short clip was indeed worth of watching. I couldn't have summed my thoughts better.
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