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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics & Religion » Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

View Poll Results - What do you think about Snowden's actions?

It needed to be done - the government is overstepping its bounds. 25 92.59%
His actions were illegal -the programs are in place to combat crime and we don't need to fear them. 2 7.41%
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Default Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

June 25th, 2013, 23:51
Originally Posted by Dez View Post
This short clip was indeed worth of watching. I couldn't have summed my thoughts better.
Agreed - someone who is a 'journalist' should place a high value on words and their meanings … 'aid and abet' is a legal term of art. People using it on Facebook is one thing … but a so-called journalist?

Worse yet, there was a real question he could have asked - "by aiding someone who as admitted to committing a felony, are you concerned about being subject to criminal investigation yourself"?

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June 26th, 2013, 12:03
Edward Snowden's actions have been courageous and bold and brave - from my point of view. As many of you, I live in Denmark. The ISPs have been ordered by law to obtain and hide all communication via the internet, over the mobile/cell phone system as well as the land line system (traditionel phone system). The basis for this is an EU-directive from 10 years back or so…..

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So what Snowden has uncovered re: the USA's surveillance of the citizens and people of USA we have known for many, many years in Denmark - as well as the rest of Europe (EU).

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June 27th, 2013, 00:47
There are some big differences. In europe the ISP and phone companies are responsible for storage of the data that identifies things like the users and the time of the communication. The content of the communication does not have to be stored. Data has to be stored for a minimum of 6 months and a maximum of 2 years.
Naional implementations of this can be different throughout Europe though.

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June 27th, 2013, 01:00
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
So what Snowden has uncovered re: the USA's surveillance of the citizens and people of USA we have known for many, many years in Denmark - as well as the rest of Europe (EU).
In Germany that kind of surveillance caused quite an uproar among the people and was ultimately overturned by the Federal Constitutional Court. So no, not all of Europe.
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June 27th, 2013, 01:37
Good on Germany. I hope the uproar gets big enough here that it's stopped as well. How about the UK?
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June 27th, 2013, 05:08
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Good on Germany. I hope the uproar gets big enough here that it's stopped as well. How about the UK?
UK is the U.S.'s little buddy in everything. Not only has it been tapping international communications, but MI6 was one of the few departments to actually get a spending increase amidst budgetary cuts.
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June 29th, 2013, 14:03
Not uninteresting : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013…website-access

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June 30th, 2013, 20:35
The scandal has expanded quite a bit as a german newspeper called "Der Spiegel" http://www.spiegel.de/international/…-a-908614.html published a news story how USA has been spying european union offices for quite some time. Now this has casted quite a shadow to the trade negotiations between usa and european union.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23120955
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013…-us-spying-nsa
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July 1st, 2013, 13:51
The local newspaper reports that Germany has seen the far highest rate of "filtering" meanwhile "anglo-american partners" have been "untouched", and several countries surrounding Germany have seen far less "filtering".

Everyone assums now that Germany is considered as a brooding point of anti-american terrorism.

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July 1st, 2013, 14:56
Well, the 9-11 guys did plan from Germany. So I have no problem at all with the USA keeping taps on certain groups and potential hotbeds of radical Islam within Germany. And I am positive our government and secret service are quite willing to support any such investigations.
However that does NOT cover blanket filtering of billions of calls and emails, and it CERTAINLY doesn't covers spying on EU institutions and similar. I am rather pro-American, but this really annoys me. USA: you are not playing nice. Maybe you don't feel you need to, but there's a price to pay for that.
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July 1st, 2013, 17:02
It amuses me that people always act so shocked when information leaks on the USA spying on other countries, or Britain's MI5 spying on G20 members. Those are just the agencies that got caught Everyone spy's on everyone, and I can pretty much guarantee that individual EU member-state's intelligence agencies are spying on the US, the UK, and on other EU member-states. To think otherwise, would be naive. They just haven't had leakers coming forward about their activities yet . Remember Anna Chapman and that whole Russian spy-ring that got busted a few years ago? Just think of all the similar programs spying programs that have not been found.

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July 1st, 2013, 17:12
And it amuses me that one of the first comments in any comment section on such will always be a guy that says "Ha, everybody knew it, don't be naive". My answer is no: there are very important differences is the quality and scope of what "everybody does" and what is and was done here, and I believe the differences are highly relvant.
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July 2nd, 2013, 00:09
^One of those times where I wish we had a +1 button.

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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July 5th, 2013, 01:00
I guess this is why France is not granting Snowden asylum:

France 'has vast data surveillance' - Le Monde report
"France's foreign intelligence service intercepts computer and telephone data on a vast scale, like the controversial US Prism programme, according to the French daily Le Monde."

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July 5th, 2013, 01:04
Hypocrisy everywhere you turn.
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July 5th, 2013, 01:11
I would not be surprised if we end up learning that their spying extends to other countries And then there's this: German spy agency gets funding boost to aid web traffic interceptions

France spying on New Zealand:
"The data was being collected by the same people behind the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior in 1985 - the Generale de la Securite Exterieure (DGSE), the report said."

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Last edited by GuybrushWilco; July 5th, 2013 at 15:20.
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July 6th, 2013, 13:24
Have you heard of several European countries not allowing the President of Bolivia to fly over their countries because of a RUMOR Mr. Snowden could be in his machine ?

After 13 hours forcedd at the ground in Austria, with Austrian policepersons (?) inspecting the airplane, he could move on.

Full South America is now severely pissed off. They're gonna hate half Europe plus the U.S. for that.

According to the British newspaper The Guardian (which I usually trust), the U.S. indeed tried to stop him : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013…en-asylum-live

Reactions : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013…-latin-america

As a kind of "thank you" they are now offering him Asylum : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013…edward-snowden



Meanwhile, elsewhere in the U.K. … : http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/20…tities-lambert

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July 6th, 2013, 15:30
Full South America is now severely pissed off. They're gonna hate half Europe plus the U.S. for that.
So nothing new there . The reason that these European governments are not helping Snowden, is because they are doing the same kinds of things that the NSA are doing. They only act shocked and morally outraged in public to look good to voters. Imagine if they go out of their way to help Snowden, and then a leaker comes forward about one of their spy programs? They would look like total buffoons.

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July 7th, 2013, 00:25
Originally Posted by GuybrushWilco View Post
So nothing new there . The reason that these European governments are not helping Snowden, is because they are doing the same kinds of things that the NSA are doing. They only act shocked and morally outraged in public to look good to voters. Imagine if they go out of their way to help Snowden, and then a leaker comes forward about one of their spy programs? They would look like total buffoons.
Sounds about right.
By law (in Sweden) all communication that goes across the border is fair game for the FRA (The radio Agency of the Defence, roughly translated), that means just about all internet-traffic in Sweden and I'm sure that they spy more than that. The big Thing was that the US spied on the top levels of the EU, that's crossing the line. Imagine if a country in Europe had installed a bug in the oval office, what kind of uproar could we expect then.

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July 7th, 2013, 01:51
I have little doubt that EU members are spying on the US, and on each-other. They just have not been caught yet .

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