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August 15th, 2013, 10:13
Worked for me in the original Realms of Arkania series. Saving costs XP unless you save at a temple. The new HD remake has the same rule.

It encourages the player to play through bad conditions and pain, on the other hand it is not forbidden to save anywhere. Good compromise.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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August 15th, 2013, 10:17
I thought the system in Frayed Knights worked rather good as well. No penalty on saving but you lost all your drama stars if you reloaded games friviously.
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August 15th, 2013, 11:22
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Worked for me in the original Realms of Arkania series. Saving costs XP unless you save at a temple. The new HD remake has the same rule.

It encourages the player to play through bad conditions and pain, on the other hand it is not forbidden to save anywhere. Good compromise.
I have to agree with DArtagnan. People often have to leave sudden and unexpected, or have only a very limited amount of time (especially now that we're grown up and have a job), and penalizing saving would then suck. A lot.

I also don't see the problem with saving anytime anywhere. Those who "abuse" this system could also use character editors and whatnot, so let us assume that everyone is capable of deciding for themselves what ruins the fun and what doesn't. The goverment is already bad enough and I don't need devlopers to patronize me as well.
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August 15th, 2013, 11:27
Okay - it should be selectable once you start a game -> if I remember right Wizardry 8 had the option "Iron Man Mode" -> the game was saved only, when you closed the game.

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August 15th, 2013, 11:37
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Okay - it should be selectable once you start a game -> if I remember right Wizardry 8 had the option "Iron Man Mode" -> the game was saved only, when you closed the game.
The option is always nice - and I do like a good Iron Man mode, though it has to be done with thought and care.
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August 15th, 2013, 11:45
There are a lot of problem with save load anywhere.

Here is an example ( from an old game ) I cannot even remember it's name anymore, but you needed to go to jail to find a secret stone inside the jail and open up a large part of the story. There was a lot of events designed by the developer that'd make you go to jail, so I guess they just counted on it happening sooner or later. However the saving / loading player ( in this case me ) associated it with a bad thing, and kept loading and making another choice each time it happend.

Now an important part of the game design was missed, same for surprise "things" that the developer might have designed that the player would not expect to happen, had the player know it'd happen with this certain combination of actions / choices they'd probably have stuck with those, but since they don't know it'll go like that they'd save load instead.

Yet another example, there is casino in game, now with save load, you can just bet all your money on something… and if you lose, load again, bet again, and save when you win. Economy is broken…. there are many such an examples, I believe save automatically when exiting, and if you die have a mechanic to handle that ( if not in ironmen mode, which I realise is too hardcore for most ).
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August 16th, 2013, 16:08
Save systems are ultimately an intrinsic part of the game design (or at least, *should* be an intrinsic part of the game design).

e.g., If devs want to use "iron man" or permadeath save systems, they best balance the risk/reward near perfectly and think a lot about the implications of players potentially ending up in unwinnable positions. It can work and it can hugely enhance the game (rogue likes and Dark Souls being two shining examples), but it needs a great deal of thought.

It's generally easier for devs to just use save-anywhere or checkpoint systems. It's then up to the player to decide how much they want to exploit that and hence spoil their own fun. And most of us are weak.
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August 17th, 2013, 08:46
Going for long stretches without saving stops being 'hardcore' and 'cool' once the game starts freezing and glitching like crazy.
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August 17th, 2013, 10:07
There's certainly nothing more annoying than having to replay huge stretches of a game each time you die. But, ultimately, that's partly the result of the dev's choice about how to treat failure. If they expect you to simply reload a previous save, then yes, they'd better let you save frequently (or have frequent checkpoints).

But many games don't make death/failure the end of the game and work it into the game itself. Dark Souls and Rogue, for example, would be very different games if the player could save/reload at will! Those games highlight the downside of unlimited save/reload is that if it's heavily used, there's no longer any risk in the game, which leaves any associated reward pretty hollow. And any choices the player makes are rendered meaningless if the player does have to live with the consequences and can just reload until they get the outcome they want.

It all depends on the game, really. No one system is the "best."
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August 17th, 2013, 13:21
Dunno if it is just me but the whole runes and runewords system of Diablo 2 was awesome. Made grinding so much more fun. But we will never see that again with the current state of Blizzard.
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August 17th, 2013, 19:09
It absolutely was a big part of the fun. One thing mystified me: did Blizzard expect people to discover the words by trial and error? That would have been nearly impossible.
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August 17th, 2013, 20:24
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
It absolutely was a big part of the fun. One thing mystified me: did Blizzard expect people to discover the words by trial and error? That would have been nearly impossible.
I got no idea about that.
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August 18th, 2013, 18:50
I'm really a sucker for hand-placed loot. While I do like level scaling to an extent, and random loot is loads of fun in games like Reckoning and Diablo, but still, I always enjoy some well-thought-out hand-placed gear. I do wish more RPGs would hand-place gear like legendary items in Morrowind or similar games. I love clearing some very difficult ruin or something only to be handsomely rewarded at the end of it.
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August 20th, 2013, 18:14
I definitely agree I much prefer hand-placed loot in the same way that I prefer non-scaling enemies and no re-spawn
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August 22nd, 2013, 02:14
I just remembered another one:

NPCs with their own Character - this was done best IMO in Drakensang 2, where a lot of the inhabitants of Nadoret had their own, unique Character. The Weapons Merchant and the Armor Merchant where always bickering about each others products, the two guys on the marketplace who bitched about everyone, from the merchants to the playercharacters, and the alchemist who had enough of them at one point and took measures

Other games have usually only important Characters fleshed out this way - i.e. Duncan the Innkeeper in NWN 2 or maybe Caspenar in Throne of Bhaal or Elder Cane in Diablo.

Edit: Torment, of course, had a lot of fleshed out NPCs

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September 2nd, 2013, 18:23
I love when world functions and changes with or without player's interference.Mount and blade and Space rangers probably do it best, it's also well done in Drox operative but that game lacks on other fronts.
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