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Default I love a story with a happy ending.

July 31st, 2013, 15:19
Another case of happy ending. No, it's not a case in North Korea.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/ju…ent/index.html

I can't believe this happened.

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July 31st, 2013, 15:47
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Another case of happy ending. No, it's not a case in North Korea.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/ju…ent/index.html

I can't believe this happened.
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August 27th, 2013, 04:24


http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/26/us/wor…html?hpt=hp_t2

88 year-old WWII veteran beaten to death because he refused to surrender his wallet to two black teenagers.

I hope this gets the attention it deserves. If he had been black and those kids had been white, the media would have it on every front page in the country. Not to mention we'd probaly have riots in the streets to go along with that.
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August 27th, 2013, 05:30
It's unfortunate that we let the media make the Zimmerman case about race, but it doesn't make sense to then go demanding that other crimes be about race. I've seen this all over Facebook, with people complaining about the race issue. We need to stop begging the media to give us a race conflict. An old man, an honorable veteran, was killed by two teenage criminals. That's it. It's a tragedy but please don't make it into what it isn't.
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August 27th, 2013, 05:44
I'm surprised that you would misunderstand my post to such a degree. Where do you see me demanding that it be made about race?

I agree that it shouldn't be about race, but my point is that if the roles had been reversed, it probably would be.
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August 27th, 2013, 05:46
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post


http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/26/us/wor…html?hpt=hp_t2

88 year-old WWII veteran beaten to death because he refused to surrender his wallet to two black teenagers.

I hope this gets the attention it deserves. If he had been black and those kids had been white, the media would have it on every front page in the country. Not to mention we'd probaly have riots in the streets to go along with that.
And where is your WHITE history month?!?

Jeez … You DO know that the lack of acknowledgement that there is a legitimate basis of severe racism in this country … Is racist, right?

These kids - like the ones who shot the runner - were scumbags. Not because these two were black, or because two of the three who shot the runner were black.

Unlike the Trayvon case, this is just senseless and brutal crime done by people who show little regard for human life. THAT case was very different and attempts to equate show a basic lack of context and historical reality.

A true discourse on racism cannot start without acknowledgement of the foundation of our country being largely based on one color owning another - heck that is the foundation of the second amendment! We must acknowledge that until the late 60s blacks were not equal under the law at all, and that all the way until more recent years there were lingering legal inequalities, and that even today there are significant issues. That is a core reality … That is fact. Once we are straight on that stuff we can talk.

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August 27th, 2013, 05:53
Nice rant, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the country recognized those things long ago, and yes, that includes me.

Let me know if you're interested in something other than spouting a bunch of useless shit that has nothing to do with my point.
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August 27th, 2013, 10:05
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'm surprised that you would misunderstand my post to such a degree. Where do you see me demanding that it be made about race?

I agree that it shouldn't be about race, but my point is that if the roles had been reversed, it probably would be.
When people keep saying, "If he were black, it would be news," I see it as essentially asking for it to be made into a race thing. It's just stated passive-aggressively enough to give plausible deniability.
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August 27th, 2013, 15:20
Originally Posted by Korplem View Post
When people keep saying, "If he were black, it would be news," I see it as essentially asking for it to be made into a race thing. It's just stated passive-aggressively enough to give plausible deniability.
Not at all. It's asking for equal treatment. Ideally, both situations are treated as crime and race doesn't figure in, but if you're going to scream about race in one situation, it's tremendously disingenuous to ignore it in the other just because it doesn't fit Mike's chosen narrative.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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August 27th, 2013, 22:58
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Not at all. It's asking for equal treatment. Ideally, both situations are treated as crime and race doesn't figure in, but if you're going to scream about race in one situation, it's tremendously disingenuous to ignore it in the other just because it doesn't fit Mike's chosen narrative.
Um, no - again you demonstrate a lack of appreciation of context.

One situation involves thugs who belong in prison murdering someone, because they are not nice people.

The other involves someone who (arguably) racially profiled someone, followed them, pursued them, and killed them.

The situational context is different - just as it is different if there is a hold-up where a gay person is the criminal and a straight person is shot and killed, compared to a group waiting outside a gay bar to grab a person and chain them to the back to drag them to death. No serious minded person would equate the two.

My 'chosen narrative' is fairly simple: the power structure in America was built on the backs of slaves who were legally excluded from 'all men are created equal' almost totally until the late 1960s (i.e. until the lifetime of most here), and continue to be excluded and victimized to a large extent in every walk of life. These are a simple reality - racism continues to be a major issue in our country, and has gotten worse fueled by the racist arm of the right wing.

Therefore there will not always be 'equal treatment' when looking at these things. When you have a police system that has a 'random stop' policy that somehow managed to stop 95% black people, you cannot argue that the system is random or fair - you simply cannot.

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September 3rd, 2013, 17:30
two black teenagers.
Pretty sure one of those words is completely irrelevant to the story.
Last edited by Becca43; September 3rd, 2013 at 17:30. Reason: Spelling
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:10
Originally Posted by Becca43 View Post
Pretty sure one of those words is completely irrelevant to the story.
Oh, so race is irrelevant if the victim is white? Why isn't that the case for the racist nazi holocaust murder of an innocent black teenage mensa member like trayvon?
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:19
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
Oh, so race is irrelevant if the victim is white? Why isn't that the case for the racist nazi holocaust murder of an innocent black teenage mensa member like trayvon?
Really? The difference isn't race but the actions - the kids who shot the runner were multi-racial thugs who were randomly targeting someone and need to go to jail, and it also once again reflects the need for gun control.

The Zimmerman case involved specific targeting, tracking, stalking and physical confrontation. And let's not forget - while we can dispute self-defense, right to racially profile, and so on … Zimmerman absolutely and undeniably is a killer, he chose to shoot Martin to death.

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September 3rd, 2013, 22:44
Originally Posted by Becca43 View Post
Pretty sure one of those words is completely irrelevant to the story.
Try telling that to the media.


Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Zimmerman absolutely and undeniably is a killer, he chose to shoot Martin to death.
Zimmerman chose to take action that he felt was necessary to save his own life. So by your definition, a "killer" is anyone who takes a like regardless of the circumstance.
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:48
Oh no he's a killer. I know some of the biggest killers in the world, doesn't make them murderers.
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:49
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Zimmerman chose to take action that he felt was necessary to save his own life. So by your definition, a "killer" is anyone who takes a like regardless of the circumstance.
It is undeniable fact that Zimmerman wholly owns responsibility for the confrontation. Period. Even assuming he was OK in the racial profiling and stalking of Martin, which we can debate forever since we'll never know … once he reported things to the police, anything subsequent was HIM initiating a confrontation.

The thing is - it is at least as likely that Zimmerman initiated contact, meaning that Martin was equally doing 'what he felt was necessary to save his life'. Again, we will never know for sure. There was too little evidence to convict because it is circumstantial.

So no, it isn't 'regardless of circumstance' - but when someone pursues this sort of course of action armed with deadly force, um, yeah, he is a killer.

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September 3rd, 2013, 22:51
He purposely got a gun to confront people like Martin.
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:53
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
Oh no he's a killer. I know some of the biggest killers in the world, doesn't make them murderers.
Thank you - I chose my term specifically. Since we have no clue about everything that happened, I believe that Zimmerman didn't start out the night intending to kill Martin. Thus a killer, not a murderer.

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September 3rd, 2013, 22:54
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
He purposely got a gun to confront people like Martin.
You mean to defend himself from people like martin who broke his nose and tried to bash his skull in.

Sorry bro but you can either be a tough guy or run to mommy/gubmint for help, not both.

Not one person has said trayvon was wrong not to call the police. Why is that? The hypocrisy is unbelieveable. Nope, put down the phone and punch some dude out instead. Well, that's the consequences, tough luck.
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September 3rd, 2013, 22:59
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
It is undeniable fact that Zimmerman wholly owns responsibility for the confrontation. Period. Even assuming he was OK in the racial profiling and stalking of Martin, which we can debate forever since we'll never know … once he reported things to the police, anything subsequent was HIM initiating a confrontation.
Both parties acted in a way that led to the final outcome. You can pretend otherwise if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that Martin chose to physically assault Zimmerman rather than take another course of action, like simply going inside the house, instead.


Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
The thing is - it is at least as likely that Zimmerman initiated contact, meaning that Martin was equally doing 'what he felt was necessary to save his life'. Again, we will never know for sure. There was too little evidence to convict because it is circumstantial.
Wow… that is literally quite laughable.

So you're saying that to "save his life", Martin felt he had physically assault someone that was doing nothing other than following him?

Ok.
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