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Default Why is it so hard for some people to give?

October 2nd, 2013, 05:40
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
However, I don't think giving money is the ideal way of helping out. Money is only as beneficial as what you do with it - and counting on money being used for the best purpose is not something I've been able to feel certain of very often.
Indeed.

Also, it's very easy to judge others for "not giving". Sometimes placing our own needs above those of others IS the right thing to do. Not always, or even the majority of the time, but often enough that it can't be chalked up to mere "selfishness".
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October 2nd, 2013, 06:10
Why is so easy to ask for free stuff? why is it not considered as selfish?

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October 2nd, 2013, 08:58
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Money is only as beneficial as what you do with it - and counting on money being used for the best purpose is not something I've been able to feel certain of very often.
I don't think you quite understand the concept of giving, and of course you think you know better than the recipient.

The mention of religion in relation to being charitable is interesting, does that tired old mechanism still influence people's behavior in these modern times? I know some pretty selfish people who call themselves Christians.
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October 2nd, 2013, 09:52
Calling yourself a Christian, like calling yourself a genius, does not make it so!!

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October 2nd, 2013, 10:59
Originally Posted by badmofo View Post
I don't think you quite understand the concept of giving, and of course you think you know better than the recipient.
Then explain to me the nature of giving, please.

Why would I think I know better than the recipient? Maybe there's no way out of a bad situation that has to do with money. It has nothing to do with what I know or don't know.

The mention of religion in relation to being charitable is interesting, does that tired old mechanism still influence people's behavior in these modern times? I know some pretty selfish people who call themselves Christians.
A lot of people have a morality that's based on Christian values. Are you saying that's a surprise to you?

We're all selfish - as we all have natural limitations. Some people might help others a lot - but if they neglect themselves or their own family - that's just another kind of selfishness. You need to be well to be of use to others.
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October 2nd, 2013, 11:04
Originally Posted by CrazyIrish View Post
Indeed.

Also, it's very easy to judge others for "not giving". Sometimes placing our own needs above those of others IS the right thing to do. Not always, or even the majority of the time, but often enough that it can't be chalked up to mere "selfishness".
It's very rare I feel confident I know what the right thing to do is when it comes to things like this.

Personally, as I said, I don't feel obligated to help people - so a guilty conscience is rarely part of the picture.

That said, I have a strong empathic response - which means I'm finding it very hard to refuse people in need when faced with them, in person. But that has nothing to do with feeling responsible or believing I'm doing the right thing.

It's just a basic human response when you witness the suffering of other people.
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October 2nd, 2013, 20:49
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
We're all selfish - as we all have natural limitations. Some people might help others a lot - but if they neglect themselves or their own family - that's just another kind of selfishness. You need to be well to be of use to others.
Not quite DArt: "Selfish traits not favoured by evolution, study shows"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849
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October 2nd, 2013, 22:01
It's always the selfish that say "we are all selfish". As if it makes it OK.
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October 2nd, 2013, 22:34
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Not quite DArt: "Selfish traits not favoured by evolution, study shows"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849
Unfortunately, selfishness is a much more complex concept than anything that article deals with.

You can spend your life helping people and yet still sexually abuse your child at home.

What does that say about the person in question?

As for evolutionary theories, they can't change that we're all selfish in different ways. That's because human beings are limited and we don't have he capacity to be selfless in every action we take.

When you think about it, it's pretty basic stuff.
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October 3rd, 2013, 00:28
Common sense is the most uncommon of senses unfortunately ….
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October 3rd, 2013, 16:30
You are getting entangled in your own thoughts again DArt:

1- "You can spend your life helping people and yet still sexually abuse your child at home" - I don't and neither does the majority of the population. You can't try to refute a general point by pointing to the extremes. I mean you can, but that's not how it works.

2- "As for evolutionary theories, they can't change that we're all selfish in different ways. That's because human beings are limited and we don't have he capacity to be selfless in every action we take" - that's (as Brits would have put it) a lot of bollocks since it's not necessary to act selflessly in every action we take. It's enough if somebody is doing it from time to time.
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October 3rd, 2013, 17:10
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
You are getting entangled in your own thoughts again DArt:

1- "You can spend your life helping people and yet still sexually abuse your child at home" - I don't and neither does the majority of the population. You can't try to refute a general point by pointing to the extremes. I mean you can, but that's not how it works.
It serves as a very clear demonstration of how even the "best" of us can be selfish. If you look into the scandals happening in the clerical field with priests and young boys - it will seem much less far fetched.

I could bring up any example and you'd call it a singular extreme. Like an alchoholic father doing great things for the community - but fails to be present when he's home with his family.

That's an extreme? Unfortunately, the only way such things are extreme is in how common they are.

2- "As for evolutionary theories, they can't change that we're all selfish in different ways. That's because human beings are limited and we don't have he capacity to be selfless in every action we take" - that's (as Brits would have put it) a lot of bollocks since it's not necessary to act selflessly in every action we take. It's enough if somebody is doing it from time to time.
Someone doing it from time to time is still selfish in one way or another during those other times. That's my point.

Another point is that we're ALL selfless from time to time.

Not a single person in the world is entirely selfish or selfless - and that's really all I'm saying.

Again, it's pretty basic stuff. Don't be silly and try to refute something that obvious.

Yes, it's obvious - but people still can't help but think in terms of black and white. That's why I feel I have to bring it up.

So, when someone refuses to give away money - he or she might have good reasons, and they might STILL be very selfless in other ways. They may be the most attentive parents or friends - doing everything they can to help those close to them.

Does that mean they're selfish? I think not. Not unless we're all selfish - and that's what I'm saying we are.

People are so quick to judge and label - and yet we know next to nothing about why we do or don't do what we do.

But if you want to believe that people are "good" or "bad" because they give or don't give - be my guest. You'll just be yet another ignorant human being in that way.
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October 3rd, 2013, 20:53
Well I'll agree with that. I never met a perfect paragon of a totally selfless person, nor those opposite. There are averages and trends in the population though, and that's what matters, rather than the odd exceptions.
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October 4th, 2013, 22:26
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Well I'll agree with that. I never met a perfect paragon of a totally selfless person, nor those opposite. There are averages and trends in the population though, and that's what matters, rather than the odd exceptions.
That's because you've never met me.

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October 11th, 2013, 17:24
Why is it so hard for some companies to give ?
Google was found to have transferred all of their profits into the Bermudas, an newspaper article says. Where they pay less tax than in the company's original country …

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October 11th, 2013, 17:36
That's fairly simple. Companies are in business to maximize profit. That's their goal, and that's supposed to be their goal. Now, you can decry Bermuda's corporate tax laws that create such a path to maximized profits, but you're completely missing the point if you're blaming Google.

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October 11th, 2013, 20:20
I think such companies should be banned from doing business in the US. That would keep the leechers from stealing from our country and not giving back.
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October 11th, 2013, 20:22
I don't think giving is typically a selfless act anyway.

I think most give for selfish reasons such as the acknowledgement they get or making them feel better about themselves.

Also when have you givin enough. I give to st Jude's children's hospital every year but typically don't give to anything else.

Am I selfless for giving to st. Jude's or selfish for not giving to anything else even though I probably could afford to?

At the end of the day it's a personal choice not an obligation and no one should be praised or demeaned according to how much they give or don't give.
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October 11th, 2013, 22:39
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
I think such companies should be banned from doing business in the US. That would keep the leechers from stealing from our country and not giving back.
You do understand how impossible that would be to enforce, as well as how incredibly easy it would be to circumvent?

You incorporate wholly owned subsidiary Widgets, USA (based in Delaware due to favorable corporate tax laws in that state, naturally). All the American sales/expenses go thru Widgets, USA. Let's say, just to put some numbers to the example, that Widgets USA generates $3mil revenue per day against $2mil expenses per day. Widgets Worldwide charges their subsidiary (Widgets USA) a $1mil per day fee for corporate management. Thus, Widgets USA shows no US profit and pays no US taxes. Widgets Worldwide still gets all the profits and still enjoys the beach in Bermuda. So, now you've created yet another massive and expensive bureaucracy that changes absolutely nothing and nets the government a grand total of $0 for the trouble.

The only folks you might catch with that plan are a few mom-n-pop import/export shops that lack the money to pay a good accountant. I'm appalled at your brazen attack on middle class America, mister. And here you've always said it was the republicans that do that sort of thing. Did you switch parties when I wasn't looking? I mean, I get it and we'll welcome you with open arms, but I just didn't see that coming.

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October 11th, 2013, 22:51
Haha well that's a lame excuse. Of course, changing the tax laws to prevent this sort of hocus pocus is also necessary.
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