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Default PC RPG for 2013

October 17th, 2013, 10:31
Shadowrun Returns is only barely an RPG, if you ask me. It's more like a completely linear adventure with light RPG elements and combat.
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October 17th, 2013, 22:57
Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
Thanks, I played the original Arkania games. Is the remake any good? From what I've found so far, the buyers don't seem happy.
Got launched too early, but they appear to be doing a good job of patching it up. crpgnut is having a go with the latest version. See: http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showt…#post106122194.
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October 18th, 2013, 00:12
Thanks, I'll wait for a bit though yet.
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October 20th, 2013, 01:44
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Shadowrun Returns is only barely an RPG, if you ask me. It's more like a completely linear adventure with light RPG elements and combat.
Have you played Shadowrun Returns???

If really you played it ok that's your point view, but I never saw you mention that NWN2 wasn't a RPG. And I don't remember NWN2 was less linear.

So you'll put Shadowrun in what categoryn a strategy game? LOL.

The more ironical is it is from far better than Conquistador and the crap that is still the Arkania remake and for both you don't spite any nasty word, omg your tastes are very weird.

There's a class system, equipment, shops, inventory management, party management, plenty dialogs with many roleplay choices and spare me the consequences thing I'll throw you ton of RPG with none.
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October 21st, 2013, 02:00
Shadowrun Returns is as much an RPG as I've ever played. Now, I have to mention that the shooter's chatty-chatty/watch cutscene/select bad-evil response (Mass Effect and the like) to me is less RPG than Shadowrun returns.
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October 21st, 2013, 08:10
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Shadowrun Returns is as much an RPG as I've ever played. Now, I have to mention that the shooter's chatty-chatty/watch cutscene/select bad-evil response (Mass Effect and the like) to me is less RPG than Shadowrun returns.
I can certainly name a lot of RPGs that I like better than Mass Effect but Shadowrun isn't one of them. At least there is a decent degree of freedom in the ME games. Shadowrun is basically just a linear series of missions strung together in a straight line.
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October 21st, 2013, 08:35
Concerning Shadowrun you need to distinguish between the game's technical core itself and the first campaign "A dead man's switch". The latter one indeed is quite linear. But with the game's powerful toolset one can create complex campaigns being as branched as you like. As the toolset is open for everyone there will be tons of custom campaigns in the future. Perhaps also the next official campaign "Berlin" will already be more branched.
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December 1st, 2013, 00:01
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
Here is a similar list from the Iron Tower forums, though limited to TB games - I think there are a few games in there that are not listed here yet.

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum…ic,3239.0.html
I made this list RPG because I'm more a RPG player since a long time and because of the forum. I also believed 2013 would be quite special for RPG. But the end of the year is coming and I realized this year has been two points for me:
  • From very very far, the best Mac game year ever, it's just stunning.
  • Not a RPG year but instead a huge Strategy game year for me, and since a very long time.

I should have made like this guy ie a TB strategy games list too, he does it, but few more wouldn't hurt. As a draft for 2013 TB Strategy (noteworthy) releases ie the other list completed with some mentions:

Mac release or not:
  • MAC : Mac release done or almost sure.
  • mac : possible bot not certain Mac release.
About the sub genres (don't put too much faith into the tags I give):
  • 4X : More or less related to 4X games which means from Civilization to Master of Orion.
  • MM : More or less related to a Heroes of Might & Magic approach, or Age of Wonders.
  • TRPG : Tactical or Strategy game but with a large part of RPG elements.
  • SWG : Streamlined Wargame, not meaning no depth but typically with a higher focus on ease of use and appeal than pure realism or complexity.
  • SSG : Streamlined Strategy game not related to war games, not meaning no depth but typically with a higher focus on ease of use and appeal than pure realism or complexity.
  • CWG : More on the classical Wargame tendency, ie probably more for pure wargames fans.
  • CG - Card based game.

Released (30 November):
  • Dominions 4 (4X/SWG - MAC)
  • Battle Worlds: Kronos (SWG - MAC)
  • Endless Space Disharmony (4X - MAC)
  • XCOM Enemy Within (SSG - MAC)
  • Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes (MM)
  • Pandora: First Contact (4X - MAC)
  • Might and Magic Heroes VI Shades of Darkness (MM)
  • Civilization V: Brave New World (4X - MAC)
  • Battle Academy: Fortress Metz (SWG - MAC)
  • Battle Academy: Rommel in Normandy (SWG - MAC)
  • Tank Operations: European Campaign (SWG)
  • Jagged Alliance Online with Shadow or Ivan Pack for a standard game (SSG - MAC)
  • Skulls of the Shogun (TRPG)
  • Agarest: Generations of War (TRPG)
  • King's Bounty: Warriors of the North (SSG - MAC)
  • Eador Masters of the Broken World (MM) (remake)
  • World's End Chapter One (TRPG - Web)
  • Space Hulk (SSG - MAC)
  • Fantasy Kommander Eukarion Wars (SWG/CWG - MAC)
  • Arma Tactics (SSG - MAC)
  • System Crash (CG - MAC - released but the author is still polishing important elements)
  • Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm (CWG)
  • Alea Jacta Est- Parthian Wars (CWG/4X?)
  • Espana 1936 (CWG)
  • Civil War II (CWG)
  • Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 (CWG)
The "classical wargame" additions are perhaps a bit an abuse because it's really not a game genre I have look at since a very long time. But when browsing I noticed some and added them in the list to check them deeper later.

Some chance they are released before end of year:
  • Unity of Command - Black Turn (SSW - MAC) (Release the 10 December)
  • Telepath Tactics (TRPG - MAC)
  • Xenonauts (SSG - MAC)
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December 1st, 2013, 00:37
It was still arguing about Shadowrun returns? I think there's really a point generating a rather important schism.

I don't care if an area is a simple/mildly deep maze with fights thrown in it, it's pointless and not better than a linear corridor. It's all about choice and discovering not about wandering to the right or the left that could be a totally uninteresting and pointless choice. But that's how are filled many area of the best open outdoor RPG, just a pointless exploration with only a more or less touristic element.

For me non linearity (in general not only the spatial point of view) means searching, choices, alternate ways to do stuff, story elements, events, dialogs, puzzles, NPC and other concrete elements that are much more important than a bland non linear exploration.

So a point important is that in many area of Shadowrun returns:
  • Often for the exploration, I really have many littles choices, little stuff to find, some corners to check, or go nearer some place and check if some interaction are possible, some dialogs to triggers and some choices in dialogs. Moreover some area, let say about 3 offer more possibilities or puzzles and options than the whole ME2 game. All of that is for me an excellent substitute to non linear wandering, moreover linear wandering is too often pointless bland fillers in modern RPG, I don't have much the tourist soul.
  • During fights, despite the linearity or progression, there's still many placement choices, progression caution to apply, some tricks to exploits, and more, no way it's a static fight in a corridor as often in ME2 (ME3 doesn't a much better job in that matter).

The scale of the game is also misleading. The area in Shadowrun returns are seen from above and seems more simple, and a map to map comparison would show the ME2 maps aren't less linear. And if I take a game like NWN OC, obviously a RPG, that maps comparison would be in favor of SRR. Anyway if some want consider SSR isn't a RPG, fine for them, but they are obviously wrong, I don't see why bother argue on that, I just do it for the struggle against lies and manipulation, a fight for the obvious truth.

That said, no way I consider SR on par to ME2 (nor to ME3) because ME2&3 have a much better writing, dialogs and story, better deeper characters, deeper companions, and overall the fights even if in a totally different genre and quite good in SRR, are better in ME3 and even in ME2.
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December 1st, 2013, 02:46
Agarest: Generations of War and Eador: Masters of the Broken World are easily the best RPGs this year. One could say that the original Eador is better, and more moddable, so Agarest wins IMHO.

フエフエ。
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December 1st, 2013, 06:37
I saw many negative comment on the remake of Eador, it's difficult to sort between the players just not liking some changes and real quality lowdown. That one is clearly in the "MM" turn based strategy category.

For Agarest I was wondering if it was more a RPG or more a clear Tactical RPG. I'm hesitant on this game because of the clear JRPG lineage, usually it lead developers to design the game with some elements I don't like much, like too many fights, grinding, too many random encounters, a too deliberate teenish approach. But no idea if this game has any of those characteristics.

I'll doing edit OP to update the list, the case is almost close with the end of year now nearer and near. I'll also add the turn based strategy list in OP.
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December 1st, 2013, 07:58
Ok so updated OP with two lists, RPG and Turn Based Strategy games.

The RPG list includes all RPG, Action, more classical, turn based, real time. And the turn based strategy games list is as big even when removing the few very classical wargames that are just for extreme fans. Ha ha I would never had expected that!

But even more aggravating is the TB Strategy list is also quite better in quality.

For the positive point of view for RPG, 2014 seems to be an amazing RPG year.
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December 1st, 2013, 09:48
Originally Posted by felipepepe View Post
Agarest: Generations of War and Eador: Masters of the Broken World are easily the best RPGs this year.
errrr… if you consider those two as RPGs than you have huuuuugely broad definition of what RPG is.
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December 1st, 2013, 10:08
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
errrr… if you consider those two as RPGs than you have huuuuugely broad definition of what RPG is.
Well I enjoyed it as it was a reminder of older PS1/PS2 SRPGs. If you played any of the older PC JRPGs you will like it as well.

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December 1st, 2013, 10:23
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
For Agarest I was wondering if it was more a RPG or more a clear Tactical RPG. I'm hesitant on this game because of the clear JRPG lineage, usually it lead developers to design the game with some elements I don't like much, like too many fights, grinding, too many random encounters, a too deliberate teenish approach. But no idea if this game has any of those characteristics.
It's 100% a tactical RPG, and it's FULL of random battles, grinding, and the most otaku/kawaii/hentai approach you'll find in a game… FFS, you get to choose a wife to mary, and then you play with your son. And then your repeat that, for 5 generations.

But behind all that, there's a extremely complex battle system, full of classes, weapons, skills, combinations, monsters that you can capture and use in combat, formations and all you can imagine… seriously, it's a tactical jRPG fan dream game.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
errrr… if you consider those two as RPGs than you have huuuuugely broad definition of what RPG is.
Eador maybe, but Agarest is a tactical RPG, I see no reason why it wouldn't be considered a RPG.

フエフエ。
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December 1st, 2013, 15:24
Agarest is definitely an RPG, I would love it if not for the need to grind. Eador remake is a great game on its own, but not an RPG in my mind.
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December 1st, 2013, 16:05
Hmmm if KB3 is on the list, why Expeditions isn't?

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