|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Off-Topic » The TV Series discussion thread

Default The TV Series discussion thread

October 22nd, 2013, 20:58
I'm impressed how knowledgeable DArtagnan is about this version that he's never seen.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#361

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,819

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:03
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'm impressed how knowledgeable DArtagnan is about this version that he's never seen.
As I said, I assume they're copying the part.

That much was pretty obvious from what I saw with Diane Krüger.

No matter what they might have changed, I assume there's still a killer and people still retain their major plotlines.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#362

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:18
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
No matter what they might have changed, I assume there's still a killer and people still retain their major plotlines.
Wow, that's quite a leap.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#363

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,819

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:31
Yeah - a huge leap.

But I appreciate your equally huge contribution to the discussion
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#364

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:34
Dart excels at writing about something he knows just a little about. But he's far from the only one, but certainly one of the masters.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#365

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,988

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:41
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
WHY would she be such a bitch? Take note of her subtle remarks. I assume they're copying the part - so there should be plenty for you to pick up on.

Either it's the worst writing of the century - or there's a REASON she behaves like that and still has a job.
Actually, I don't think they're copying that critical part. The explanation for why she still has a job is that the sheriff feels responsible for her following his failure to solve her sister's death. That wasn't plainly stated, but enough hints were thrown out that it was clearly intended. That might even serve to explain her nutjobbery, basically saying the trauma of losing her sister caused her to snap, but that's not the direction they took it and it's not appropriate to Aspergers anyway.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If you still aren't willing to understand her based on what I've told you - then it's most likely too late.
I'm on board even though she irritates me, but I don't know that the viewing public will follow.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
In the Danish version - she gives a ton of subtle hints, like "I'm not normal" "I'm no good as a girlfriend" - "Why is that joke funny?" - and so on.

She cries at one time when her boss is meant to retire, but it's only a tear - and then she's back to herself again.
We haven't gotten "a ton" of those. Very few, actually, and they've always been in scenes where the comment could easily be seen as situational rather than introspective. We got the "girlfriend" one, but it played as brusquely blowing off a potential suitor rather than insight into her condition. We got the "joke" one, too, early on, but all it established is that she's socially inept. 90% of the characters on the show are damaged/inept in some fashion, so that comment offers no insight to her issue, just confirmation that she's screwed up in some fashion like every other character and none of them have Aspergers.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
The character is basically completely incapable of normal social function - but she's chosen to withstand all the ridicule and social isolation, and she's chosen to sacrifice almost everything just to be as good at her job as she can be.

She's possibly the least selfish person in the entire show - and that's the beauty of her character. She never does ANYTHING to hurt anyone - and she does everything to help. Everything she does is based on what she thinks will be the best thing to do.

The other characters go around cheating on their wives and kill people.

But people don't see it - they just think she's a bitch.

You think that's a character worthy of hate?

I can't remember any character for which I've had greater sympathy in a TV show.
Worthy of hate? No. Needlessly veiled causing constant annoyance? Yes. Our version generates none of that sympathy. She's damaged goods. That's no different than any other character on the show. With the reporter, we're beat over the head with the root of his damage. With Marco, the root of his damage (well the initial one prior to his son) is obvious and self-inflicted. With the reporter's friend, we're plainly handed the source of her damage. On it goes, but with this one character, who happens to be the main one, we're given nothing. No explanation. No cause. No good hints. Nothing.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: *sigh* / / Detroit Red Wings: Took injuries to see them, but how about them youngsters!
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#366

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,317

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:45
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Actually, I don't think they're copying that critical part. The explanation for why she still has a job is that the sheriff feels responsible for her following his failure to solve her sister's death. That wasn't plainly stated, but enough hints were thrown out that it was clearly intended. That might even serve to explain her nutjobbery, basically saying the trauma of losing her sister caused her to snap, but that's not the direction they took it and it's not appropriate to Aspergers anyway.
I'm on board even though she irritates me, but I don't know that the viewing public will follow.
Is it really important to you that "the viewing public" will follow?

In the Danish version - it's not spelled out either, but it's made clear that she's excellent at her job and that she's solved a lot of crimes.

We haven't gotten "a ton" of those. Very few, actually, and they've always been in scenes where the comment could easily be seen as situational rather than introspective. We got the "girlfriend" one, but it played as brusquely blowing off a potential suitor rather than insight into her condition. We got the "joke" one, too, early on, but all it established is that she's socially inept. 90% of the characters on the show are damaged/inept in some fashion, so that comment offers no insight to her issue, just confirmation that she's screwed up in some fashion like every other character and none of them have Aspergers.
Well, if they haven't made her stand out with her severe social awkwardness - then they've certainly failed in doing the character justice.

In the Danish/Swedish version - she's clearly "out there" compared with everyone else at the job.

Worthy of hate? No. Needlessly veiled causing constant annoyance? Yes. Our version generates none of that sympathy. She's damaged goods. That's no different than any other character on the show. With the reporter, we're beat over the head with the root of his damage. With Marco, the root of his damage (well the initial one prior to his son) is obvious and self-inflicted. With the reporter's friend, we're plainly handed the source of her damage. On it goes, but with this one character, who happens to be the main one, we're given nothing. No explanation. No cause. No good hints. Nothing.
Well, I'll take your word for it

Pretty sad if they've messed it up so badly - but I have to say I suspect you're just not good at picking up on subtleties - hehe.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#367

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 21:55
Honestly to be evil and to cook the situation this time was not deliberate. I just wanted to share my joy.

As I've said, didn't watch US remake, won't watch UK remake and if you've read the post I made in movies thread, you'll know why.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT AUDIENCE'S IGNORANCE. You can't understand what is it about so something has to be cut out or changed in it's basics? Go watch Scary Movie #x and leave the original series intact for those who know how to appreciate it.

Oh and… Bring back Firefly cancelled because Fox underestimated the audience thinking noone couldn't get what is it about since it's CEO was dumb enough not to understand "that shit".
Where's bloody Kickstarter project? I'm instapledging my monthly income on it!

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#368

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,093

Default 

October 22nd, 2013, 22:38
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Is it really important to you that "the viewing public" will follow?
Unfortunately, shows live and die by ratings. If you don't help out the moronic masses a little, you end up cancelled.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Well, if they haven't made her stand out with her severe social awkwardness - then they've certainly failed in doing the character justice.

In the Danish/Swedish version - she's clearly "out there" compared with everyone else at the job.
Oh, they captured that just fine. It's the "why" that they've failed dismally on. Unless you've got a degree in psychology or the drive to spend a few hours digging on WebMD just for fun, you're left with the choice of her just being generically fucked up or a complete bitch. Neither of which is good for the character, the show, or your desires for education.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Pretty sad if they've messed it up so badly - but I have to say I suspect you're just not good at picking up on subtleties - hehe.
Certainly a possibility. Subtle wouldn't be considered a trait of my carefully constructed online persona.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: *sigh* / / Detroit Red Wings: Took injuries to see them, but how about them youngsters!
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#369

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,317

Default 

October 23rd, 2013, 09:16
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Unfortunately, shows live and die by ratings. If you don't help out the moronic masses a little, you end up cancelled.
Which is why the best shows are always cancelled
Oh, they captured that just fine. It's the "why" that they've failed dismally on. Unless you've got a degree in psychology or the drive to spend a few hours digging on WebMD just for fun, you're left with the choice of her just being generically fucked up or a complete bitch. Neither of which is good for the character, the show, or your desires for education.
Actually, I'd argue that you just need some basic understanding of human psychology.

If someone behaves in an extreme way - it's usually really bad writing - or there's a very good reason for it.

It's never about "just being a bitch" or "just being fucked up".

But again, it requires the viewer to actually care about human psychology

Certainly a possibility. Subtle wouldn't be considered a trait of my carefully constructed online persona.
It would not, no
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#370

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 23rd, 2013, 16:05
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If someone behaves in an extreme way - it's usually really bad writing - or there's a very good reason for it.
Perhaps, but several other significant characters are extreme as well. Are we to assume they've all got disorders? You've got the tortured lesbian getting slapped by her mother. You've got the addict reporter that treats everyone like total garbage. You've got the philandering cop that knocks one off with a recently widowed suspect even though his marriage is failing. You've got the human trafficker who clearly has issues of some sort. And those are the good guys!

But we're supposed to say, "Oh, this extreme character is intended to be completely different from all those other extreme characters, and it's intuitively obvious that it's Aspergers because everyone knows the symptoms of that condition like the back of their hand." That's stretching "subtle" quite a ways.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: *sigh* / / Detroit Red Wings: Took injuries to see them, but how about them youngsters!
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#371

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,317

Default 

October 23rd, 2013, 18:06
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Perhaps, but several other significant characters are extreme as well. Are we to assume they've all got disorders? You've got the tortured lesbian getting slapped by her mother. You've got the addict reporter that treats everyone like total garbage. You've got the philandering cop that knocks one off with a recently widowed suspect even though his marriage is failing. You've got the human trafficker who clearly has issues of some sort. And those are the good guys!
I don't think those are examples of extremes, though. Unfortunately, that's quite common for human beings.

Obviously, I don't know how they've portrayed those characters in the US version - but they didn't strike me as "extreme" in terms of oddness or weird behavior.

More people are unfaithful than not - and being arrogant and conceited is extremely common. I don't even remember the lesbian?

But we're supposed to say, "Oh, this extreme character is intended to be completely different from all those other extreme characters, and it's intuitively obvious that it's Aspergers because everyone knows the symptoms of that condition like the back of their hand." That's stretching "subtle" quite a ways.
No, I don't think you're supposed to do anything.

I know it's a really hard concept to grasp for a US viewer - but it's not necessarily the intent of the writer(s) to explain or teach - just to show something.

Remember, this isn't a US show originally - and it wasn't made just for money. We're a bit different in Scandinavia when it comes to entertainment.

What you take from it is up to you.

At least, that was my impression of the Saga Norén character as they specifically DIDN'T mention Asperger and didn't go all preachy (which I hate) - and I loved how I almost stopped watching because she was so ridiculous. It took me a while to realise why she behaved that way - and I had a complete turn-around.

My take is that they DO NOT expect everyone to understand at all. They want people to have a strong reaction and go on a journey with this character.

But they give enough clues along the way to make someone inclined to care something to go on.

Then again, I don't have a problem not being shown everything. Had I not bothered to invest myself - I wouldn't have gotten anything out of it - and I like that.

Just like I like my gaming. I don't like games that force feed clues and point to everything. I like to be challenged and I like to think for myself.

Just as long as there IS an explanation or something to discover. I don't care for artsy fartsy random musings and bullshit ala David Lynch. But that's another story.

Broen was a fantastic show - even if the master plan of the villain was kinda implausible.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#372

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 23rd, 2013, 21:49
@dteowner- It's not worth it. Just accept the fact that US viewers are obviously less intelligent, and we could never appreciate the far superior televison from other regions where shows are art and there's no money involved.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#373

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,819

Default 

October 24th, 2013, 09:20
It's not about being less intelligent - it's about being used to another kind of entertainment.

Denying this would be like denying that games are being dumbed down. Do you really think the producers behind these expensive TV shows are different? Don't be silly.

If you don't believe there's a difference between the US and the Scandinavian standard, then you're less informed than I'd have expected. For one, we simply don't have the money to make a spectacle to replace good writing.

There's also a difference between having money as the number one goal in life - and have it be merely important.

Now now, I'm not saying every US citizen has money as their number one goal - but you'll find it's more common in the US than Scandinavia.

One reason for that is that our societies have much stronger safety nets for people without the means to take care of themselves.

It's not about "superior morality" or whatever you're telling yourself I have to be saying. No, we're all human beings and we're all flawed.

But that doesn't mean our societies and cultures are identical.

But what am I doing - I'm talking to JDR. So, obviously what I've been saying is that you're all stupid and I'm so smart - and every point I've been making about this Saga character is obviously conceited and a reach.

There… I've saved us a bunch of time
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#374

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 24th, 2013, 09:26
I would say there's a different "style" not standard. Unless you're talking about production values in which US shows/movies are clearly superior.

As far as what an individual's number one goal is, I think that would have to be evaluated on a person to person basis.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#375

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,819

Default 

October 24th, 2013, 09:28
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I would say there's a different "style" not standard. Unless you're talking about production values in which US shows/movies are clearly superior.
A different standard isn't necessarily better or worse - it's just different.

I'm not saying Broen is objectively better than, say, 24 - I just like it better.

Yes, US production values are MUCH higher than ours. Whether that makes the shows better or not, is subjective.

We have plenty of shitty shows around here as well - but again, we have to come up with other ways to entertain than the spectacle - because we simply don't have that option.

As far as what an individual's number one goal is, I think that would have to be evaluated on a person to person basis.
I agree - but even so, you'll find different answers from culture to culture. Even you can't deny that.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#376

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 24th, 2013, 09:37
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I agree - but even so, you'll find different answers from culture to culture. Even you can't deny that.
No denying that. There's a reason the US used to be called "The land of opportunity".

Ironically though, much of the perception about being "money driven" came from the heavy populations of immigrants throughout history who came to America in search of a better way of life. For a long time, it was simply easier to become wealthy here, so of course more people were.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#377

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,819

Default 

October 24th, 2013, 09:42
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No denying that. There's a reason the US used to be called "The land of opportunity".

Ironically though, much of the perception about being "money driven" came from the heavy populations of immigrants throughout history who came to America in search of a better way of life. For a long time, it was simply easier to become wealthy here, so of course more people were.
I'm not blaming human beings for being human.

I'm also not judging people for wanting more money than they really need. Your society is saturated with capitalistic notions - so it must be hard not to crave wealth.

Maybe it's a good thing and maybe it's a bad thing.

It's not like people don't want money around here - we're just somewhat less obsessive about it. But we want other things instead. Again, it has nothing to do with superior morality. It's just different ways of being human and flawed.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#378

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,443

Default 

October 25th, 2013, 06:47
Folks - discuss TV series. Do not discuss the personality of viewers who also happen to post here, thank you.

Semper HiFi!
Motto of the 54th Groove Bde.
Jaz is offline

Jaz

Jaz's Avatar
SC-2201
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#379

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,338

Default 

October 25th, 2013, 13:34
My bro mentioned I should check a certain crime procedural - Unforgettable.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1842530/

Told him to shove off because I've read somewhere it's cancelled after the first season, but now I see on wiki it's actually renewed twice which means there will also be season three.
Anyone watched it, is it good as he claims it is?

————

Found out the next season of True Blood will also be the last. Thank god. It started good and then went down rapidly over years. Don't ask why am I still watching it. Must be Pam's dialogues…

————

in the year 1945 when Claire Randall, a British combat nurse, is on vacation in Scotland with her husband, Frank Randall. They are on a second honeymoon to rekindle their relationship after being separated for the past six years due to the war. While Claire is looking at some plant species near a stone structure similar to Stonehenge, she starts to hear a loud buzzing sound and finds herself in the year 1743.
Claire runs into a sadistic British soldier, Black Jack Randall, who she later discovers is an ancestor of her husband, Frank. Claire is rescued by a group of Highlanders who she gets to know over the course of a few months. The British are convinced that Claire is a spy and they insist that she be turned over to them for questioning. The Scottish clan give Claire the option of marrying one of the clansmen in order to gain the clan's protection and not be turned over to Black Jack Randall.
Claire marries Jamie Fraser, and he swears an oath to protect her. He protects her with his sword many times. Jaime affectionately calls Claire "Sassenach," which is a term used by the Highlanders towards a Lowlander or an English person. The pair gradually fall madly in love with each other, but Claire's other life with her husband in 1945 is always on her mind. Eventually, Claire tells Jaime the truth about where and when she comes from, and Jamie tries to send her back to her own time.
That's in short what is Diana Gabaldon's bestseller about. It's not just a yucky romance turnable only into soap opera crap, but combines almost if not all genres. And Starz are making series based on it with the same title - Outlander. When to expect it? Next year.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#380

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,093
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Off-Topic » The TV Series discussion thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch