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Default Deathfire - Update #2, We Thank You

November 8th, 2013, 12:45
G3 Studios has posted the second update for Deathfire: Ruins of Nethermore with news about 1,000 backers reached, Get an Avatar, and the Curse of the Nethermancer.

1,000 backers reached!

As I write this, we have accumulated 1,000 backers, and it took only a little more than 24 hours. We are truly impressed, and seeing this, we might indeed make it to the 1,500 backer milestone tomorrow, which will unlock the Kickstarter-exclusive cover for the game. It is still going to be hard, though, and we will need all the support from you that we can get. Talk about the “Deathfire” Kickstarter. Spread the word. Shout it out! just help us to keep the momentum going and to attract new backers to make sure we will reach our funding goal.

Having said all that, we are extremely impressed that no less than 948 backers achieved FIRST DAY BACKER status! That is definitely a badge to wear with honor, because you have established yourself as someone who believed in the vision of the project from the very beginning and were willing and ready to prove it. We cannot tell you how much we appreciate this show of faith and support.

At this point we would also like to give a quick shout-out to our backer Empirimancer, who was the first person to back “Deathfire” in this campaign.

Naturally, I would also like to mention Martin Zagora, who was our 1,000th backer!

Curse of the Nethermancer

The question also came up, whether the Nether Bursa item that we outlined yesterday replaces the in-game item that is part of the DIGITAL BASE EDITION and upwards. No, it is not. The Bursa is a separate item that every single backer will receive. The item from the DIGITAL BASE EDITION will come in addition to the Nether Bursa, and at this time we have not yet announced what that item will be. Stay tuned, and eventually you will find out, as we will cover it in one of the future updates.

And speaking of the Nether Bursa and the Nethermancer, I wanted to let you all know that we have removed the NETHERMANCER EDITION from our reward tiers. If you’ve been following the comments section, you have probably heard that this reward did not sit well with many backers, as they felt that we were withholding content from all other backers. This was not our intention at all, of course, and therefore, that tier is available no more.
More information.

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November 8th, 2013, 12:45
I think Guido Henkel is still misleading his second campaign. In order to achieve the goal he must be much more social and talkative than that. He must take Brian Fargo as an example. While running his campaign Fargo gave countless interviews to gaming media (also before and end of the campaign). I don’t remember any single interview with Guido Henkel. This goal can’t be achieved with pledgers telling it to their friends only, they must attract the attention of mainstream media.

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November 8th, 2013, 14:49
Hard lessons for Herr Guido Henkel. He will learn, at latest during the fourth Kickstarter.. If he doesn't, he must step down for "Not getting it."
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November 8th, 2013, 19:19
Well, he is writing a column at pc games - in German, where he writes about all the press work they did beforehand.

I think with showing the fast reaction on the nethermancer tier, he showed that he is able to learn.
However: I have read several Interviews with Guido to other topics and judging from them and other sources like his comments in podcasts (there is also a english podcast about deathfire) I can say that I hardly know anyone else who is that "thoughtful" and down-to-earth. And well, he is German.
His focus is on the game content and not on showing how awesome he is as a person. And while that is a good thing on the one hand, it's a bad thing for Kickstarter. For a kickstarter presentation it's best if you are a person who stands in the middle of stuff. Who can sell himself as a product. Like Tim Schäfer or Brian Fargo. From what I know that's not in the German game developer culture at all. In Germany these are team efforts. And the only "vocal" person I know is this Crytek guy (who is actually turkish). I guess presenting himself like that is something Guido is really not comfortable with.
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November 9th, 2013, 13:08
IIRC, during the Thorvalla kickstarter, he didn't show his face at all.

The problem is the weakness of the pitch though. People don't know WTF to expect from this game. I really thought he'd only do another campaign if he has some real material to show.

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November 9th, 2013, 13:23
He had some real material to show in the video, didn't he?
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November 9th, 2013, 13:26
Some screenshots and footage of a fire spell travelling down a hallway: not real material. Not really really real.

By my estimation he shouldn't have shown his face around kickstarter again until he has some footage that actually shows the game in action. Possibly even a playable demo. The pitch he has now would be weak/ mediocre even if he was a newcomer to the platform. But with one big failure under your belt… it's even worse.

edit: or can you tell me in your own words what to expect from Deathfire?

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November 9th, 2013, 13:38
Yeah, I think I got enough impressions for that.
I expect something along the lines of Lands of Lore or Stonekeep. Both very linear.
But it has turnbased combat instead. The graphics already look pretty cool.
And from my perspective the big thing of the game is the interaction between the party members, a little like in Jagged Alliance or Dragon Age Origins, but instead of using fixed scripts it will be dynamic dependent on the attributes.
However, having programmed on amateur niveau myself and having a deep understanding of game mechanics (at least I would claim so) I am not sure how this can really work out in the actual game. I mean it sounds great on paper, but I have a hard time of understanding how this will look like in the game.
He said in the video that party members may leave the party. But will you have the possibility to recruit new party members then?

But yeah, I think what he showed in the video is quite good. The WAY he showed it could have used some improvement. You know, showing more enthusiasm, explaining how awesome he is, what invaluable experiences he has, and gaining nostalgic bonusses by showing clips from highlights of the old games he did.
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November 9th, 2013, 13:46
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Yeah, I think I got enough impressions for that.
I expect something along the lines of Lands of Lore or Stonekeep. Both very linear.
Has he said it's going to be linear?

But it has turnbased combat instead.
What will the combat be like? What tactical options (if at all) will you have? Will there be formations? How is ranged combat initiated/ will it be possible at all? How much focus will be on combat vs. other gameplay? Will there be cheap options like lots of potion chugging or will you need to be more careful?

The graphics already look pretty cool.
Granted, he did give an impression of the graphics. He didn't even cop out like Richard Garriott by saying it's only placeholders.

And from my perspective the big thing of the game is the interaction between the party members, a little like in Jagged Alliance or Dragon Age Origins, but instead of using fixed scripts it will be dynamic dependent on the attributes.
We know there will be interactions, but it remains very unclear how that will go down and what consequences there will be. In the pitch Guido says that a companion might just up and leave. Ok, but how can I deal with that? Can I make up another character on the fly? Can I recruit another NPC? Is there any way I can tell that a party member is close to his/ her breaking point? What can I do about that? Furthermore, why don't these personalities extend into combat (Guido said that in combat everyone is under your full control)?

But yeah, I think what he showed in the video is quite good. The WAY he showed it could have used some improvement. You know, showing more enthusiasm, explaining how awesome he is, what invaluable experiences he has, and gaining nostalgic bonusses by showing clips from highlights of the old games he did.
I really don't feel my questions answered, but YMMV. We're RPG nerds and willing to give Guido credit for his past work though. That might not be true for a lot of other people.

edit: Actually, for me, the most memorable thing Guido has said (not in the pitch though!) is that the game is first and foremost about fun. Ok, but what's fun in Guido's mind? My personal guess is this means no realistic world simulation, IOW no food mechanics and teleportation everywhere.

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November 9th, 2013, 13:58
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
Has he said it's going to be linear?
Yes: One additional goal we have planned will add an Overhead Map to the game, complete with Overland Travel, Hunting and Gathering. At this point we will no longer have a linear game, but will also add additional main story lines to the game so that you can really go out and explore.

What will the combat be like? What tactical options (if at all) will you have? Will there be formations? How is ranged combat initiated/ will it be possible at all? How much focus will be on combat vs. other gameplay? Will there be cheap options like lots of potion chugging or will you need to be more careful?
That's in detail questions I don't expect to be answered in the original pitch. Maybe in an update focussing on combat. For now its:
With a variety of large outdoor and indoor environments, the game will offer a rich game setting with party-based gameplay and turn-based combat that allows for tactically infused battles.

We know there will be interactions, but it remains very unclear how that will go down and what consequences there will be. In the pitch Guido says that a companion might just up and leave. Ok, but how can I deal with that? Can I make up another character on the fly? Can I recruit another NPC? Is there any way I can tell that a party member is close to his/ her breaking point? What can I do about that?
Yub, I agree here.

Furthermore, why don't these personalities extend into combat (Guido said that in combat everyone is under your full control)?
Because that is really, really annoying.
Dead State also wanted to do that in the beginning, they changed this during development though because it's just too annoying for the player (besides of some little things like you find in Jagged Alliance)

I really don't feel my questions answered, but YMMV. We're RPG nerds and willing to give Guido credit for his past work though. That might not be true for a lot of other people.
I think the problem is that even RPG nerds hardly know who Guido is and what he did. And without highlighting that and without spreading real "excitement" in the video it's hard to go viral.
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November 9th, 2013, 14:03
Oh, I just checked the video again. He doest say "leave the party", but "lead the party" doesn't he? My fault then.
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November 9th, 2013, 14:07
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
That's in detail questions I don't expect to be answered in the original pitch. Maybe in an update focussing on combat. For now its:
With a variety of large outdoor and indoor environments, the game will offer a rich game setting with party-based gameplay and turn-based combat that allows for tactically infused battles.
This depends entirely on how important combat is to the gameplay IMO. Torment: Tides of Numenera didn't need to give any specifics on combat because they made it clear that combat isn't the focus of the game. I suspect that this will be different for Deathfire though - however, I don't know for certain, and that's a problem. I don't want to get a puzzle heavy game when I pledged for combat and vice versa.

Because that is really, really annoying.
Dead State also wanted to do that in the beginning, they changed this during development though because it's just too annoying for the player (besides of some little things like you find in Jagged Alliance)
That exposes the real problem though. If personalities and indidivual behavior is annoying, then it's also annoying out of combat. Or would you say it's not annoying if your tank leaves the party just before you're getting swarmed by 30 goblins? It's also a bad idea in a pitch to say "oh, to be consistent we'd have to implement this feature, but we have no idea how to do it lol".

I think the problem is that even RPG nerds hardly know who Guido is and what he did. And without highlighting that and without spreading real "excitement" in the video it's hard to go viral.
You can't excite people if they don't know WTF your game is about. Don't get me wrong: Project Eternity and Tides of Numenera also had weak pitches. But they both referenced other games (Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment) to give people an idea of what they're going for. Guido OTOH says "I'm not here to talk about my past games". Which is ok, but then you might want to give an example of a newer game that is somehow comparable to what you're doing this time.

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November 9th, 2013, 14:10
Yeah, I guess you are right. Wouldn't have hurt to compare features to other games…

But no, I think that personal behaviour in combat and out of combat are completely different stories. But all I could do here is also name dropping games which did it well.
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November 9th, 2013, 15:25
This campaign needs a miracle to make the very minimum $390,000. Cleary Guido & Team planned to blast through 390K in the first few days…

It appears increasingly clear that a strong attracting factor is missing in form of the whole original Realms of Arkania development team. Or just talent: music should be much stronger & better in the intro to emotionally transform people into backers.

An intro-movie-expert could have made the video like the project eternity intro.
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November 9th, 2013, 19:25
The thing is an RPG with so much potencial goes to waste because of insufficient pitching. And it seems Guido Henkel doesn't care about it. Lack of frequent updates proves that.

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November 9th, 2013, 20:09
One thing I've noticed with a lot of Kickstarters is people can make games, but they don't understand the business side of running a company/project. Marketing is key for getting these projects funded. It's not just about putting up a page saying "here's what we want to do" and waiting for the money; you need to drum up interest both through interviews/updates and getting potential customers involved with the team & project. That's why advertainment is such a big thing now, especially in the US.

I'm pretty sure Kickstarter has a clause about competitions for the projects via social media, but I guarantee there's creative ways to leverage it to get your game noticed. I'm sure the major sites see tons of e-mails asking for coverage on a daily basis, you have to do something to standout from the crowd (no different than a resume or interview for a job). I know PoE got a lot of attention once Kripparrian got involved in the beta and started streaming the game.

And of course, in this specific case, there's something to be said about the difference in German and US business culture as well as general Kickstarter burnout at this point. With the exception of ConEx, none of the Kickstarters I've backed lately are looking like they'll get funded.
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November 9th, 2013, 20:32
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/g3s…of-nethermore/

trending to $354,624 =90% at this moment

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November 9th, 2013, 20:37
Will probably be much less, as it already received the 3 day push. Today they will unlikely get more than 4k if no update is coming.
Currently they will have a very hard time to even reach 200k.
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November 10th, 2013, 04:36
Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
The thing is an RPG with so much potencial goes to waste because of insufficient pitching. And it seems Guido Henkel doesn't care about it. Lack of frequent updates proves that.
Well, if only that were true. :-)

For the past 9 weeks now I have spent every waking hour of my life on nothing but this Kickstarter and the reason I've been lagging with the update yesterday was simply because I was completely bogged down all day, trying to get some press people on the phone or to answer my emails so we could get some better coverage.
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November 10th, 2013, 04:44
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
Has he said it's going to be linear?

What will the combat be like? What tactical options (if at all) will you have? Will there be formations? How is ranged combat initiated/ will it be possible at all? How much focus will be on combat vs. other gameplay? Will there be cheap options like lots of potion chugging or will you need to be more careful?


We know there will be interactions, but it remains very unclear how that will go down and what consequences there will be. In the pitch Guido says that a companion might just up and leave. Ok, but how can I deal with that? Can I make up another character on the fly? Can I recruit another NPC? Is there any way I can tell that a party member is close to his/ her breaking point? What can I do about that? Furthermore, why don't these personalities extend into combat (Guido said that in combat everyone is under your full control)?
These are actually pretty good questions and you should ask me these over in our official forums or in the Kickstarter comment section. As much as I like RPGWatch, sadly, on a remote comment thread such as this, questions like these will go mostly unnoticed, because I simply can't be in all places at once, and I stop by here irregularly, mostly skimming over posts.

I will try to answer your question later when I have a bit more time. Sorry for being so verbose right now.
Last edited by Guido Henkel; November 10th, 2013 at 04:59.
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