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December 12th, 2013, 13:04
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
As I said, it will be more than sufficient for Fallen Enchantress - barring any weird compatibility issues.

Obviously, you have to care more about reality than irrelevant benchmarks and imprecise sys. requirements.

If we were to care about those - here's an article detailing how the SP2 can run games like Portal 2, LoL, Diablo 3 and SC2 at medium-high settings with good frame rates.

It can even run something like Bioshock Infinite - though you'll have to use low settings:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/a…u-have-the-rig

For kicks, here's the D3 requirements:

https://eu.battle.net/support/en/art…m-requirements

As you can see, it has higher demands than FE. Needs higher clocked dual core cards (dual core 2.2 vs 2.8), and better graphics cards (Gefore 6800 vs 7800).

But I don't care about articles - as I rely on my experience for this sort of thing. I've played both Elemental and Fallen Enchantress on inferior hardware - and they're both just fine. Not exactly high performance - but more than adequate. My Mx11 Alienware Laptop, for instance, played FE just recently with reasonable frame rates - and it's VERY close to SP2 in terms of performance if we look at benchmarks.

Meaning, I actually know what I'm talking about.

No, SP2 isn't a gaming machine - but it's fine for a lot of games if you accept the inherent limitations of a tablet platform.

TXA will back that up here, as he's a great fan of the Intel HD 4000 series for gaming.

I guess we know what value we should attribute "proof" provided by SirJames
So the penny arcade article sums it up like this:

Originally Posted by PennyArcade
Summing it up

I need to say this again: You’re insane if you’re buying a Surface Pro 2 just to game. There are better solutions out there for the money, and you’re going to need to do some tweaking and graphical management if you hope to play graphically intensive games at all, much less with a high frame rate. This is not a gaming machine, nor was it designed to be.
You sum it up by saying
Originally Posted by DA
No, SP2 isn't a gaming machine - but it's fine for a lot of games if you accept the inherent limitations of a tablet platform.
, AKA It's fine for games if you accept that its totally awful for games. AKA not good for games.

So how did I sum it up, again? Whats the "reality?"
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December 12th, 2013, 13:08
Don't embarrass yourself further.

The question was:

Anyway ignoring the shortcomings of touch interface, can the new windows tablets be used for gaming?

The question wasn't is it IDEAL/GOOD for gaming or even if it SHOULD be used for gaming.

Obviously, SP2 can be used for gaming.

For kicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh4ZrPtCWQ

I guess that's sort of a modern game, isn't it?

The argument was about Fallen Enchantress - and I've provided more than enough proof that it should be fully playable.

The rest is a waste of time - and I've provided the best answer to the question I could.

I don't feel the need to tell other people how they should enjoy their hobby - and I like to leave such decisions up to each and every gamer. But misinformation isn't helpful - so I pointed that out.
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December 12th, 2013, 13:38
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Don't embarrass yourself further.

The question was:

Anyway ignoring the shortcomings of touch interface, can the new windows tablets be used for gaming?

The argument was about Fallen Enchantress - and I've provided more than enough proof that it should be fully playable.
My answer to that question is much the same as yours. Tablets are awful for games. You may as well have informed this user that any PC that runs windows can be used for gaming, if you're happy to have low settings with low framerates, if you can get the games to run at all. Is that really helpful information for someone looking to play games?

What you have in this tablet is a completely awful PC running Windows 8 when it should be on XP. I never said it was impossible to make the games boot up, I just said it's awful for games. Can they be used for gaming? Would a gamer buy one? How do they compare to other PC hardware at that price? I've offered a lot more information with which to base a purchase than you have.

What proof? You linked a video of Skyrim (hardly making 30fps on low settings)which has CPU requirements well below FE. I don't think you appreciate how much CPU FE requires to run smoothly. It's not well programmed. Especially with a large map and large number of AI players making large numbers of towns. Every time you end turn it'll smash that 4200U cpu into the ground. I preordered War of Magic so I've played every beta release, I've played the game on three separate systems and I'd say if you want a good experience with that game you want a killer system! And if you want to know how to make a killer system to run the latest PC games with cranked graphics and maximum performance I won't lead you astray!
Please note that Fallen Enchantress is the only game of the suggested titles I don't think will run satisfactorily at all.

This tablet is just crap. They all are! You'd buy one and it would be covered in dust in a month cos your phone does everything it does already. Avoid tablets and get a gaming laptop if you HAVE to move around. But if you have a home then get a desktop.
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December 12th, 2013, 13:49
Again, I've played FE on very similar hardware (low clocked dual core, 335M - which is nearly identical to HD 4400 in terms of performance) - and it runs fine, and it's just a turn-based game. You don't need it to run smooth - but if you set it low enough, it'll run ok smooth and that's NOT cloth map mode.

If you think I'm a liar - that's not proof.

But people who follow my posts know that I'm not a liar and I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else.

The OP was talking about GoG games and oldies that he might be able to play on "these new" windows tablets. He was genuinely curious - and I've provided answers that deal exactly with his question, and not some imaginary question like "can a tablet replace my desktop high-end gaming machine?"

In your imaginary world - the question is about whether tablets are ideal gaming machines - or if someone should buy a tablet exclusively for gaming that includes high-end stuff.

I don't know why you'd think anyone here would seriously expect a tablet to match a desktop for gaming. Care to elaborate why you keep harping on tablets not being great for high-end gaming?

Here's another part of the OP:

I am not talking bleeding edge graphics games but say 4+ year old games like jade empire, kult, BG2, divine divinity etc.

All of those games will likely run fine or even great on the Surface Pro 2.

I get it, though, you're this old-school super gamer that can play Dark Souls like a champ - and everyone else in the world obviously plays games like you - for the same reasons, and will need a high-end machine for gaming, because there's no way a tablet could have other uses and just be a back-up gaming machine for old games when on the go, right?

Again, you're using an emotional attachment to "gaming" - and you don't understand that people like different things for different reasons. Also, they have different needs.

"Gaming" can actually mean something other than high-end gaming with the ideal setup.

Amazing, isn't it?
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December 12th, 2013, 14:09
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Again, I've played FE on very similar hardware (low clocked dual core, 335M - which is nearly identical to HD 4400 in terms of performance) - and it runs fine, and it's just a turn-based game. You don't need it to run smooth - but if you set it low enough, it'll run ok smooth and that's NOT cloth map mode.

If you think I'm a liar - that's not proof.

But people who follow my posts know that I'm not a liar and I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else.
You're telling me it "runs fine" on that hardware? I suppose you're going to tell me there's a flying spaghetti monster in the sky after that? The onus of proof is on you, my dear boy! I don't see how you're not a liar. Where your proof that it runs fine on systems that don't make minimum requirements? A skyrim video? Diablo3 system requirements? Irrelevant!

Meanwhile, I've shown comparative benchmarks, the minimum system requirements of the title, more insight into its architecture as a windows PC. While you've said "well, my friend says HD4000 is good for games", which my benchmarks would strongly disagree with.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Here's another part of the OP:

I am not talking bleeding edge graphics games but say 4+ year old games like jade empire, kult, BG2, divine divinity etc.

All of those games will likely run fine or even great on the Surface Pro 2.
Never said these would be an issue, did I?

Lets refresh your memory about what I said!

Originally Posted by SirJames
The long answer is: you'll be able to get some older games running, sure, but you'll be paying the maximum possible price to do so while receiving zero benefits from having a tablet. I wouldn't even recommend a gaming laptop if you're serious about quality and performance.

They're not gaming devices and were never designed with gamers in mind.

Fallen Enchantress is surprisingly tough on your hardware so unless you wanted to run it in "cloth map" only mode with sluggish controls I'd avoid this one. However, It should be able to run Pacman well.
You might be surprised to find that you're surprised at how tough it is on your hardware. Try scrolling across a whole endgame map… Your tablet will probably crash to desktop.
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December 12th, 2013, 14:15
Oh, so when you provide anecdotal, sys req and data sheet "proof" it's solid, but when I do the same it's a lie? Ok

No worries, though. I don't need to communicate efficiently with you.

Never said these would be an issue, did I?
if you're happy to have low settings with low framerates, if you can get the games to run at all. Is that really helpful information for someone looking to play games?

That was you - and yet it doesn't apply to ANY of the games mentioned except FE - according to your "proof" - and I've never claimed FE would have high frame rates on high settings. I said it was reasonably smooth on medium settings, given that it's a turn-based game. My estimate would be 15-20 FPS when scrolling around the map in FE (which is significantly optimised from WoM) - and that's perfectly acceptable to me in a turn-based game. I always play on large maps and turn times being slow is hardly relevant. Lategame Civ 5 turn times are like a dog on a top-end PC, for instance. It's just part of the territory.

But you seem to agree that a tablet will run all the other games mentioned fine to great - so we agree on that, at least.

Still not getting the whole emotionally charged anti-tablet sermon on top - and I hope the OP can sort that out and focus on the answers he was looking for

I tend to provide emotionally neutral information when answering questions. That way, people can decide for themselves without superfluous bullshit.

But don't let me change your helpful and neutral attitude
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December 12th, 2013, 14:28
Anyway, I'm done here… Going in circles about this is even more of a waste than usual
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December 12th, 2013, 14:33
Well, Maybe I can address it more specifically so you can understand.

Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Is that an oxymoron?
Yes, pretty much.

Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Anyway i have been buying lot of games on gog.com and few old/indie games via all the bundle sales. I am wondering if the new windows tablets will be any good at playing them? I am not talking bleeding edge graphics games but say 4+ year old games like jade empire, kult, BG2, divine divinity etc. Maybe some new indi games like Legend of Grimrock, Fallen Enchantress etc.
You can probably get all of these running acceptably except for Fallen Enchantress.
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Most tablets seems to come with Intel atom cpu. How good is it? There are some top end tablets with dual core i5 cpu as well. I guess the i5 should be good enough?
The Atom is absolutely revolting. I'll instead examine the latest CPU offered in tablet PCs; the i5-4200u from the Surface Pro 2. Please check out these benchmarks so you can accurately place its power, power to value ratio, etc.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?….60GHz&id=1947
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Most of the tablets don't seem to have good graphic chip. I think they come with Intel integrate graphic chip. Not sure if its any good.
It's not any good. Be sure of that with aid of these helpful benchmarks. As you can see in these results, the Surface Pro 2's "HD 4400" has almost no power at all, its power: value ratio is a 0.00. Avoid!
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gp…D+4400&id=2643
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Anyway ignoring the shortcomings of touch interface, can the new windows tablets be used for gaming?
The short answer is "No."

The long answer is: you'll be able to get some older games running, sure, but you'll be paying the maximum possible price to do so while receiving zero benefits from having a tablet. You'd buy one and it would be covered in dust in a month cos your phone does everything it does already. I wouldn't even recommend a gaming laptop if you're serious about quality and performance at a good price.

Tablet PCs are not gaming devices and were never designed with gamers in mind.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I would ignore SirJames in this case.
Would you really, though?

Originally Posted by DAs penny arcade link
Summing it up

I need to say this again: You’re insane if you’re buying a Surface Pro 2 just to game. There are better solutions out there for the money, and you’re going to need to do some tweaking and graphical management if you hope to play graphically intensive games at all, much less with a high frame rate. This is not a gaming machine, nor was it designed to be.
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
c) DA is in love with me!
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Anyway, I'm done here… Going in circles about this is even more of a waste than usual
What, before admitting you were wrong? That's not like you!
Last edited by SirJames; December 12th, 2013 at 14:53. Reason: quality and content
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December 12th, 2013, 14:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
TXA will back that up here, as he's a great fan of the Intel HD 4000 series for gaming.
Not so much of a fan as that I advocate your position - first-hand experience beats out something from a spec sheet. Integrated graphics from the initial Intel chipsets were really awful … but as of the 4000 and *especially* the 5000 series , you really do get decent performance in even modern games. Very surprising, but it keeps me as a 'non-graphics zealot' happy.

But the whole purpose here is not about 'will the iPad / Nexus / Galaxy / Kindle / Surface replace my desktop for gaming' … but rather 'can I get reasonable gaming enjoyment from this device as a long-time PC gamer'. The answer to the first is NO, but to the second is YES!

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December 12th, 2013, 15:13
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Not so much of a fan as that I advocate your position - first-hand experience beats out something from a spec sheet. Integrated graphics from the initial Intel chipsets were really awful … but as of the 4000 and *especially* the 5000 series , you really do get decent performance in even modern games. Very surprising, but it keeps me as a 'non-graphics zealot' happy.
Show me some 4000 and 5000 series benchmarks in Battlefield 4 and Crysis 3 and we'll talk about decent performance in "modern games"! It only takes a GTX670 to come even with Xbox One, which gets you geared up for "next-gen" games. But these Intel solutions don't even come close to being ready for gaming.
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
But the whole purpose here is not about 'will the iPad / Nexus / Galaxy / Kindle / Surface replace my desktop for gaming' … but rather 'can I get reasonable gaming enjoyment from this device as a long-time PC gamer'. The answer to the first is NO, but to the second is YES!
Gaming tablets? Yes/No?

I believe No is a better answer.

Sure, there are ways to wriggle the answer around to yes if you make multiple exceptions and allowances and don't expect results that would rival a 3 year old, second hand laptop, or even a mobile phone, at half the price. But at the end of the day that tablet PC is, at best, a 6 year old PC with no graphics card. No serious gamer could give that a thumbs up for gaming. Waste of money.

PS. I haven't even mentioned the storage space on those things! YUK!

http://videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.ph…D+5000&id=2552
Here's the benchmarks for the HD 5000… If we assume its actually 2007 and crysis just came out, its still not good enough!
Last edited by SirJames; December 12th, 2013 at 15:25.
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December 12th, 2013, 15:31
I see that the love in continues even in here

Looking at the tablets specs, I knew that they are not designed for gaming in mind let alone replace a proper desktop PC. The reason for posting is to find out if you can get “decent” gaming experience in windows tablets. Based on all the info provided here I think you can get better than “decent” gaming experience. After seeing that Skyrim video I would say its “good” gaming experience since I used to get about 40fps in my old PC! I have seen videos of WoW and the new NWN games played on the SP2.

My only issue now is the price and I can’t afford to spend £800+ since the main use of this tablet will be gaming and I recently bought a PC for gaming as well!

Plus I don’t think I will get SP2 since I think other windows 8 tablets (from ASUS etc) seem to be better value.
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December 12th, 2013, 15:45
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
After seeing that Skyrim video I would say its “good” gaming experience since I used to get about 40fps in my old PC! I have seen videos of WoW and the new NWN games played on the SP2.

My only issue now is the price and I can’t afford to spend £800+ since the main use of this tablet will be gaming…
See what you've done now, guys? He thinks it's good for gaming! Shame on you all! He can't even afford one but now he's gonna waste his money on one when he can… The main use of the tablet will be gaming!
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December 12th, 2013, 15:52
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
See what you've done now, guys? He thinks it's good for gaming! Shame on you all! He can't even afford one but now he's gonna waste his money on one when he can… The main use of the tablet will be gaming!
Haha!

I should have said its good for gaming in my bed In fact a tablet is the best gaming device if you want to play in your bed?
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December 12th, 2013, 16:03
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Haha!

I should have said its good for gaming in my bed In fact a tablet is the best gaming device if you want to play in your bed?
Well, psychologically speaking, the only thing you should do when you get into bed is sleep. You need to train your sub-conscious mind that its time to sleep when you get into bed so you don't hop in and your brain goes "games time!" and not "sleep time!".

But I'd say if you had to play games from bed a large monitor, maybe mounted on a rotating arm, and a wireless controller hooked up to a desktop or console would be your best bet.

Maybe that nvidia shield DA mentioned earlier.

Certainly not a 1.6GHz dual core PC with integrated graphics in tablet form!
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