|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Sucked In By Dark Souls

Default Sucked In By Dark Souls

January 17th, 2014, 13:08
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
A question though. I ran into a smith called Andre that upgrades armor and weapons. I am tempted to upgrade my armor, though I am afraid of spending resources on equipment that I might discard soon if I find something better.

So, what would be a good choice to upgrade?
I am playing a Knight, and armor-wise I still use all of the starting gear except the helmet (which I replaced by the Gargoyle helmet now). As for sword, I am using the Drake sword (which I can't upgrade yet anyway), but I do have a Claymore sitting in my inventory too which scales to strength. It can't quite match the Drake sword yet, but once it does I might switch. As a shield I am using a Black Knight shield (I killed the one on top of the tower in the Parish).
You can farm just about any sort of standard titanite shard up to chunks very easily (just don't waste slabs or Demon if you need it and some of the more exotic ones are just a tad more difficult/late game farmed), if you don't find it tedious, so don't be too afraid to use them up if you really need (or would enjoy) to upgrade and experiment (the game amply provides the option). i.e. killing the Knights around the parish will usually drop a titanite shard. I would not expend large ones or chunks if you have them yet though as the areas you can farm them will be kinda tough for you at this point. Upgrading and dropping items/ changing gear up is natural in this game and part of the fun imo.

That said If you want a more natural (non farming) progression or if you don't really need to upgrade due to difficulty yet, you can wait a bit. You will very soon get better gear and you can compare and mix and match accordingly. The claymore and black Knight Shield are quite good. I used that shield up until I found a very similar and arguably a bit better one Then I just changed between the two (or others) as needed. It does need twinkling though…
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#61

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 17th, 2014, 15:34
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
Huzzah! I managed to beat my first real boss(es) yesterday, the Bell Gargoyles! It took me 10 tries or so, but I finally got them. The victorious feeling as I rang the Bell of Awakening had me gloating all evening.

Sorry, I'm so excited I had to share.

A question though. I ran into a smith called Andre that upgrades armor and weapons. I am tempted to upgrade my armor, though I am afraid of spending resources on equipment that I might discard soon if I find something better.

So, what would be a good choice to upgrade?
I am playing a Knight, and armor-wise I still use all of the starting gear except the helmet (which I replaced by the Gargoyle helmet now). As for sword, I am using the Drake sword (which I can't upgrade yet anyway), but I do have a Claymore sitting in my inventory too which scales to strength. It can't quite match the Drake sword yet, but once it does I might switch. As a shield I am using a Black Knight shield (I killed the one on top of the tower in the Parish).
Good job defeating those gargoyles! It's a fun little fight, that one. xD

As for what to upgrade….

The Knight chest armour is awesome so you could upgrade that all the way to +15. all the other parts I'd probably swap out for lighter hollow soldier or balder knight pieces. Gargoyle helm is pretty good.

Black Knight Shield was a lucky drop from the knights so you'll want to use that if you can spare the heavy weight. The silver knight shield is better, though. Not VS fire, but generally.

Claymore is an excellent sword. Many would suggest the Zweihander over it because it can knock people over, but you'll do well with either. I've had a lightning enchanted Claymore last me the whole game giving a relatively low str character very nice damage hits. Down side is no bleeding damage and the big weight too.


@jonnik
Yeah, definitely need more Dark Souls!
I know its futile saying it, but I really wish they'd release a map editor so the community could make some awesome, combat heavy co-op maps. Maybe even some kinda MOBA style game modes? It could be the next Neverwinter Nights toolkit with people releasing new campaigns for years to come. Instead we just have to wait years between new souls adventures.

Still, Dark Souls 2 soon. Most excited I've been for a game in ages!
SirJames is offline

SirJames

SirJames's Avatar
Sentinel

#62

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 516

Default 

January 17th, 2014, 15:55
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
Black Knight Shield was a lucky drop from the knights so you'll want to use that if you can spare the heavy weight. The silver knight shield is better, though. Not VS fire, but generally.
My favorite shields (although the black didn't drop for me in run#2) I acquired a taste for the crest too in a certain library (it was nice to mix it up at any rate in run #2)

Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
Claymore is an excellent sword. Many would suggest the Zweihander over it because it can knock people over, but you'll do well with either.
Had trouble choosing there. Went with the Zweihander because I just love swatting/stunlocking enemies like that. Priceless

Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
@jonnik
Yeah, definitely need more Dark Souls!
I know its futile saying it, but I really wish they'd release a map editor so the community could make some awesome, combat heavy co-op maps. Maybe even some kinda MOBA style game modes? It could be the next Neverwinter Nights toolkit with people releasing new campaigns for years to come. Instead we just have to wait years between new souls adventures.
Thats a pretty good Idea for the online crowd. Not happening though. It seems the concept of UGC hasn't really got any traction with the Japanese (unless I am mistaken)…
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#63

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 17th, 2014, 18:00
Why don't you guys give Blade of Darkness a go while you are waiting for DSII.

It is not as deep as Dark Souls in terms of weapon and armour stats or lore, but it is heavy on brual combat and (fair) difficulty, combined with large levels to explore, and array of excellent and very innovative weapons with damage, durability and defence stats.

The graphics are not bad at all and the strategy in this game is within the combat, knowing your foes and and approach to slaying them 'efficiently'.

It also has 4 characters (with different attributes) to choose from with different combat moves and weapon sets.

The atmosphere is that of Dark Souls: isolated, errie, grim and danger lurking around corners while you are hanging to last inch of your life and your health potion.

If you liked Dark Souls (or you think you are good at Dark Souls ), you will enjoy this one for many hours.
Last edited by SpoonFULL; January 17th, 2014 at 18:35.
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#64

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,275

Default 

January 17th, 2014, 20:12
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
Why don't you guys give Blade of Darkness a go while you are waiting for DSII.
Finished it 2.5 times back in the day (Well Ok I can remember 2 and starting but dropping it quite early with the Dwarf )

I'd rather replay Dark Souls than it, at the moment tbh, but I am not discarding the possibility that I'll go back to it one day, when I get a bit more nostalgic (I do remember it was hard and more reflex dependent/ less tactical than Dark Souls )…
Last edited by JonNik; January 17th, 2014 at 20:25.
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#65

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 17th, 2014, 22:05
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Finished it 2.5 times back in the day (Well Ok I can remember 2 and starting but dropping it quite early with the Dwarf )
Ah, a Severance veteran - good on you.

I'd rather replay Dark Souls than it, at the moment tbh, but I am not discarding the possibility that I'll go back to it one day, when I get a bit more nostalgic (I do remember it was hard and more reflex dependent/ less tactical than Dark Souls )…
You are correct, it is slightly more reflex dependant.

I played Severance after Dark Souls and I saw a number of features in Severance that were in Dark Souls, including the (fair) difficulty level, openess of the levels, the weapons, the gameplay mechanics, and the atmosphere.
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#66

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,275

Default 

January 19th, 2014, 18:35
I played out Dark Souls and Demon's Souls as much as I could. I finished both games and started New Game pluses with both of them before burning out. Now, to derail my own thread, I picked up Dragon's Dogma… it's quite a bit different than Dark Souls but it's turning out to be worth playing, at least so far.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
TheMadGamer is offline

TheMadGamer

TheMadGamer's Avatar
SasqWatch

#67

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,935

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 06:51
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I played out Dark Souls and Demon's Souls as much as I could. I finished both games and started New Game pluses with both of them before burning out.
Possible burn out is why I like to leave a year or so before replays myself. Dark souls with only a couple of months before runs #1 and #2 is a very rare phenomenon for me.

I was meaning to ask those of you that played both the souls games. What do you believe were the differences in feel and tone between the two games?

The design elements we discussed and I feel confident that From is both keeping to and expanding the openness of the world and the ability to do a lot of things in any order you like.

But I see a lot of people commenting that they get a very Demon Souls vibe from what they see from #2 up to this point (some of them Beta players).

Also take a look at the latest screens that Couch posted if you missed them. I am only commenting on the graphics myself there. But then I did a double take and it seems this game has a lot of surprises in store rather than being simply more of the same. At the very least they seem to have kept to their intention of more exposition (so as to make the story and lore more accessible) but an "inn with patrons" and Moonlit night ? (I realize the basin was indeed a night map but I wonder how will they make the transitions this time to keep suspension of disbelief intact in something that I am starting to assume might be a more straightforward "realistic" feeling world than Lordran)…

I am even more looking forward to this game after those screens. Didn't know that was actually possible
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#68

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 07:28
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
I was meaning to ask those of you that played both the souls games. What do you believe were the differences in feel and tone between the two games?
Both Soul games? You mean Demon's Souls and Dark Souls?

You know I've only played Dark Souls for ~15-20 hours or so (several attempts to get into it combined) - but I've played a lot of Demon's Souls.

In terms of "tone" - I think they're pretty damn close to each other. Both are very deliberately bleak and melancholy. The visual aesthetic is also more or less the same, though I don't know how Dark Souls looks later on.

They both have a few NPCs you come upon, spitting elusive bits of dialogue that relates to something that has happened or will happen in the world.

I honestly don't know why people would consider them distinctly different in that way.

Character system seems identical - though I'm sure there are finer differences. The classes you get to select also seem to be the same, from what I can recall.

As for gear, I don't know much about Dark Souls - except the system with how your stats influence efficiency looks identical. Also, the crafting system SOUNDS like it's pretty much the same thing - though it's probably more elaborate.

The only major difference I noticed is that Dark Souls isn't hub-based, where Demon's Souls uses a single hub to connect the major areas. You keep coming back to it and there are several NPCs to talk and interact with in that one area.

That's about it.
Last edited by DArtagnan; January 20th, 2014 at 08:02.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#69

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 07:36
http://www.gamespot.com/dark-souls/

This review goes into some detail about the differences. Seems the "Covenants" and the concept of humanity is new to Dark Souls - though I seem to remember something about being undead/human in Demon's Souls as well. It's been too long since I played it, obviously
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#70

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 08:03
Thanks DArtagnan. I'll check it out after work.

I am starting to think that what people mean is that Demon Souls had a more distinctly "Horror" atmosphere and tone while Dark Souls was mostly an atmosphere of despair and melancholy rather than "Gothic horror" per se.

I was wondering though if Demon souls had more NPCs and more exposition (and also a world more populated at least in part by more "normal" people instead of Doomed creatures) because that is what those screens seem to imply. Apparently not from your comment.

Hmm, I am definitely intrigued by the implied changes… Lets see how this one turn out


P.S. I think if someone has played the DLC Area the subtle shift in design is already apparent there. Both in a more colorful and lively/natural way in the World design but in more talkative and prone to exposition NPCs also.

Also the enemies are uniformly more aggressive. All elements that are starting to emerge in what we know about #2
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#71

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 08:11
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Thanks DArtagnan. I'll check it out after work.

I am starting to think that what people mean is that Demon Souls had a more distinctly "Horror" atmosphere and tone while Dark Souls was mostly an atmosphere of despair and melancholy rather per se.

I was wondering though if Demon souls had more NPCs and more exposition (and also a world more populated at least in part by more "normal" people instead of Doomed creatures) because that is what those screens seem to imply. Apparently not from your comment.

Hmm, I am definitely intrigued by the implied changes… Lets see how this one turn out
I don't think Demon's Souls was more horror at all, but I obviously can't know how Dark Souls evolves. But stuff like the ghosts down below in Dark Souls (can't remember the name of the place) is every bit as "horror" as anything I came across in Demon's Souls.

I can't know the exact amount of NPCs, but beyond the hub area which has a handful - it seems to be more or less the same. I would describe it as a few here and there, for both games.

Demon's Souls DOES have some exposition in that hub area - and as I recall, there's a main NPC who goes into a little bit of detail about the bosses you need to kill and stuff.

But almost all dialogue I've come across in both games has been pretty vague and deliberately "mysterious/playful" - and I consider them to be the in-game hint system along with those fiery notes spattered about. I didn't try multiplayer very much in either game - so I don't know if they share the same system. In Demon's - people could leave behind notes and stuff as well.

One of the reasons I'm not a big fan is precisely because of how the story is delivered. I really do think it's mostly "make it up yourself" by filling in the blanks (which is almost all of it) - which isn't my kind of story telling.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#72

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 08:28
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I can't know the exact amount of NPCs, but beyond the hub area which has a handful - it seems to be more or less the same. I would describe it as a few here and there, for both games.

Demon's Souls DOES have some exposition in that hub area - and as I recall, there's a main NPC who goes into a little bit of detail about the bosses you need to kill and stuff.
Actually that sounds exactly like Dark souls. Hmm I really don't know what they mean then. Perhaps someone that has played both games extensively can weigh in here…

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
One of the reasons I'm not a big fan is precisely because of how the story is delivered. I really do think it's mostly "make it up yourself" by filling in the blanks (which is almost all of it) - which isn't my kind of story telling.
I love it But I am not in the habit of making things up. I just let the bits and pieces construct a certain feeling and impression of the world I am in and its story, that feed the atmosphere and immersion very well.

Now if people want to piece together the implied story there is indeed a lot of material there (From the item description alone!) and I understand both the appeal and the ammount of fun one can have from that…

P.S. Actually I don't bother too much in constructing a more accurate image for more exposition and Lore heavy games like the Witcher or TES either. I take the parts of the story as they are fed to me and try not to dig too deeply so as not to uncover any possible holes or logic error that may cause some strain to suspension of disbelief.

Then subsequent replays will uncover that many more bits of the Story and lore and give me a more complete view of what is going on and that is just how I like it (/offtopic and in that vein I really need to sit down and do a Roche playthrough on Witcher #2 one of these days ). Same for the Gothics really where while the story you are playing through is exposed in a straightforward manner. The world you move in and its story is mostly exposed by vague bits and pieces rather than the abundance of lore you can find in the average TES game via books i.e.

Anyways, as in literature, I am flexible in the ways I like story to be delivered in games, as long as its done artfully and I actually do like the thing being delivered
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#73

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 08:54
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Actually that sounds exactly like Dark souls. Hmm I really don't know what they mean then. Perhaps someone that has played both games extensively can weigh in here…
I'd be curious to hear about it myself

I love it But I am not in the habit of making things up. I just let the bits and pieces construct a certain feeling and impression of the world I am in and its story, that feed the atmosphere and immersion very well.
Interesting… I guess that's what I do as well, except I don't find it very fulfilling.

Then again, this is all down to personal preferences. I can see where the love for the games come from - especially since I was quite enthralled in Demon's Souls for many hours.

I just decided that it was a game of inevitable success - because it's really quite fair in how it challenges you. It's a game about learning patterns and paying attention - and I think that's great, except I don't think there's much in the way of a reward.

You defeat a boss and you get some souls - and then you can go explore a bit more, until you hit the next obstacle.

That's cool and the items you find are pretty significant. But for the effort required, I just need more of a reward. More story and more stuff to interact with. I need more time between the major challenges as well, because otherwise it feels like a constant uphill struggle - which I'm too old for these days.

But that's me, and for some people - the overcoming of a challenge is enough.

It's the same reason I don't play singleplayer strategy games anymore. I know I will learn the patterns of the AI - and I will inevitably win - but it won't be against a human, it will be against a script.

Now, the multiplayer aspect of the Souls is interesting - but ultimately, I think it's too opaque and nothing you do in-game is reflected outside of it. You don't really seem to communicate with others - meaning you don't get the full flavor of social interaction.

P.S. Actually I don't bother too much in constructing a more accurate image for more exposition and Lore heavy games like the Witcher or TES either. I take the parts of the story as they are fed to me and try not to dig too deeply so as not to uncover any possible holes or logic error that may cause some strain to suspension of disbelief.
Hehe, well - I take great pleasure in the telling of a good story when the game itself is strong. I find that I don't care about story if the game is boring, so you might say I'm a very demanding gamer.

Most TES lore is interesting - but I don't think the delivery is very good. Skyrim is the best of the bunch and that's only "ok" to my mind.

Then subsequent replays will uncover that many more bits of the Story and lore and give me a more complete view of what is going on and that is just how I like it (/offtopic and in that vein I really need to sit down and do a Roche playthrough on Witcher #2 one of these days ). Same for the Gothics really where while the story you are playing through is exposed in a straightforward manner. The world you move in and its story is mostly exposed by vague bits and pieces rather than the abundance of lore you can find in the average TES game via books i.e.
My problem is that I consume SO much entertainment that my brain won't let these things stick. If and when I replay a game (it's rare) - I've forgotten pretty much everything, so I don't even notice new stuff.

Anyways, as in literature, I am flexible in the ways I like story to be delivered in games, as long as its done artfully and I actually do like the thing being delivered
Hehe, I'm probably more rigid than most.

It's hard to quantify what compels me in non-game terms, because there are many ways to both succeed and fail.

Movies like Tron Legacy and Gravity are compelling as "experiences" - but they don't really provide what I usually care the most about, which is plausible characters with compelling and multifaceted personalities.

Then there's Tolkien - which also doesn't really provide plausible or deep characters. They're mostly one-dimensional, really. But his writing is SO strong and the plot so well crafted that I can't help but adore his books.

I'm just strange, I guess
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#74

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 09:11
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I just decided that it was a game of inevitable success - because it's really quite fair in how it challenges you. It's a game about learning patterns and paying attention - and I think that's great, except I don't think there's much in the way of a reward.
Thats it in a nutshell. I don't really get all the hype about the extreme difficulty either. Just needs some investment. #2 might turn out different for what we know though…

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But that's me, and for some people - the overcoming of a challenge is enough.
I can't deny that this aspect is pretty gratifying indeed. But for me the #1 draw of this game, even beyond the atmosphere is Discovery. Both in the sense of the world exploration with the dazzling amount of secrets crammed in such a limited space (and I have huge respect for the way they have hidden whole swaths of contents in such difficult to discover ways) and in the sense of discovering mechanics tactics etc…

It just seems that for some games the tastes and sensibilities of its designers are completely in tune with mine. That is why I become obsessed with them (like in the Gothics i.e and this one) and replay them to death, always eager to discover another little bit and relive the experience/atmosphere. That is actually why I invest and finish them, because frankly I am not that fervent of an action game player and I really do not like action for its own sake. But it does spice things up nicely if it is really well (and fairly) done

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My problem is that I consume SO much entertainment that my brain won't let these things stick. If and when I replay a game (it's rare) - I've forgotten pretty much everything, so I don't even notice new stuff.
That is the polar opposite of me, indeed. I'd rather play a limited number of games and replay them down the years. I am an avid consumer of books though (I do wish I could reread some of them too but I really got to thin that ludicrous backlog).

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Then there's Tolkien - which also doesn't really provide plausible or deep characters. They're mostly one-dimensional, really. But his writing is SO strong and the plot so well crafted that I can't help but adore his books.
That is my favorite example of the opposite side of the spectrum that I adore indeed

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm just strange, I guess
Nope just different. My God this would have been such a boring world if we all liked the same stuff and had the same pov. I doubt I would have made it past puberty, ennui would have gotten me first

Variety people!
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#75

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 09:17
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
I can't deny that this aspect is pretty gratifying indeed. But for me the #1 draw of this game, even beyond the atmosphere is Discovery. Both in the sense of the world exploration with the dazzling amount of secrets crammed in such a limited space (and I have huge respect for the way they have hidden whole swaths of contents in such difficult to discover ways) and in the sense of discovering mechanics tactics etc…
When you talk about secrets, are you talking about that white glow above corpses and the chests (items)?

Because beyond those - in Demon's Souls - the only secrets were about opening alternate paths or shortcuts to other areas.

I don't recall finding a book, a puzzle, or anything I could really interact with. I always found the environment quite bare - even if the atmosphere is very strong.

Oh, that's not true - Demon's Souls also had a few NPCs that would react differently depending on what you did.

My favorite kind of exploration is probably System Shock or Skyrim - when you find books/logs/notes that slowly tell a story about what has happened in whatever area.

That's probably the main thing I'm really missing from the Souls games.

It just seems that for some games the tastes and sensibilities of its designers are completely in tune with mine. That is why I become obsessed with them (like in the Gothics i.e and this one) and replay them to death, always eager to discover another little bit and relive the experience/atmosphere. That is actually why I invest and finish them, because frankly I am not that fervent of an action game player and I really do not like action for its own sake. But it does spice things up nicely if it is really well (and fairly) done
It's wonderful when that happens

It happened to me with Gothic and Risen as well. Skyrim too.

But it's very, very rare

That is the polar opposite of me, indeed. I'd rather play a limited number of games and replay them down the years. I am an avid consumer of books though (I do wish I could reread some of them too but I really got to thin that ludicrous backlog).
If only I could keep myself entertained through replays… I'd never want for a new game
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#76

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 09:33
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
When you talk about secrets, are you talking about that white glow above corpses and the chests (items)?

Because beyond those - in Demon's Souls - the only secrets were about opening alternate paths or shortcuts to other areas.

I don't recall finding a book, a puzzle, or anything I could really interact with. I always found the environment quite bare - even if the atmosphere is very strong.

Oh, that's not true - Demon's Souls also had a few NPCs that would react differently depending on what you did.
There are whole areas, NPCs and very cool nooks with items in them that you will only find with very diligent searching and some lateral thinking. Illusory walls. Access that only opens with you obtaining items after very tough area searching and battles and coming back to certain areas and some times equipping that item. And you only get the barest of hints about what you have to do (You really need to read item descriptions in this game if you want to scratch more than the surface).

Now for someone like me playing exclusively offline (without all those spoilers laying around) and loving secrets and exploration (and impressive complex world design) this is pure magic…

Spoiler – A Heavy spoiler example.


So in this day and age hiding content from a large part of your audience and make them dig for it (until the knowledge filters outwards I guess ) gets a lot of respect from me.
When most developers debate the actual worth of including content that not every single one player will see…
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#77

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 09:48
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
There are whole areas, NPCs and very cool nooks with items in them that you will only find with very diligent searching and some lateral thinking. Illusory walls. Access that only opens with you obtaining items after very tough area searching and battles and coming back to certain areas and some times equipping that item. And you only get the barest of hints about what you have to do (You really need to read item descriptions in this game if you want to scratch more than the surface).

Now for someone like me playing exclusively offline (without all those spoilers laying around) and loving secrets and exploration (and impressive complex world design) this is pure magic…

Spoiler – A Heavy spoiler example.
Interesting…

I can certainly see what you mean by exploration here.

I wonder if it's enough for me to try again

Still, you don't actually find books, logs/notes or anything of that kind - right?

I mean, if you enter a secret area - can you provide an example that would explain how that area stands out - except through being difficulty to find?

In a game like Bioshock or Skyrim - many, many areas are unique in terms of having their own stories and reasons for being there. You enter a location - and you can spend some time exploring and discovering what happened there and what kind of people that have lived (or are living) there, and THAT is kinda what I'm looking for. Stuff to make the experience meaningful and relevant to find beyond finding a new weapon or item - which to me is very much about areas having a history and something distinct to make them stand out.

Even if the secrets are clever and elaborate - I'd need more than just another area or just another item.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well enough, it's just me trying to clarify what I enjoy about exploration more than anything.

So in this day and age hiding content from a large part of your audience and make them dig for it (until the knowledge filters outwards I guess ) gets a lot of respect from me.
When most developers debate the actual worth of including content that not every single one player will see…
I love hidden stuff myself - which is why games like Skyrim are so appealing to me. There's SO much stuff to find - and you know you'll likely never find even half of it.

But again, I'm not talking about "items" - but rather about unique and contained little stories and scenes.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#78

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,798

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 09:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post

Still, you don't actually find books, logs/notes or anything of that kind - right?

I mean, if you enter a secret area - can you provide an example that would explain how that area stands out - except through being difficulty to find?

In a game like Bioshock or Skyrim - many, many areas are unique in terms of having their own stories and reasons for being there.
No. No books or Logs or a lot of exposition beyond what is given in the rest of the game. Once again you get the impression of what is going on there by piecing together the hints from the items and some exposition from the NPCs. No one will sit you down and tell you a story as in the rest of the game (maybe a bit more Story is fed to you in the DLC like I was saying). The locations are pretty unique and the NPCS varying and interesting, but as usual this game tells its "story" with its visual design cues (and the rest of the stuff above) rather than text.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not saying you are going to like it or suggesting to give it another try. Just explaining why I adore it
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#79

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734

Default 

January 20th, 2014, 10:01
Spoiler – Oh right an example:


Also the covenant related areas are indeed also very unique and fill out the world and its factions a bit more. Every area serves to flesh out the world a bit more indeed generally speaking. There are no gamey/more challenge areas here tbh…
JonNik is offline

JonNik

JonNik's Avatar
SasqWatch

#80

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,734
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Sucked In By Dark Souls
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:29.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch