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April 13th, 2014, 20:26
Crusaders - and therefore Paladins - don't exist in Aventuria as far as I know. The "Mysterium of Kha" forbids direct interference in Aventurian matters by the Godsthemselves. Therefore people won't directly be chosen by the Gods … with a few exceptions. Bearers of "signs" of the Nameless God, foir example, or Gods acting in secrecy. Like sending visions, talking to people via dreams, during prayers … Priests are like cars set on a certain course - but what they (the Priests) do with it, that's uncertain. Some might even fall over to the side of demons.

The Paladin, as I understood this class from (A)D&D, is so to say "a fighting priest".

The closest thing to an Paladin in TDE the consecrated one of the Goddess Rondra, for example. In TDE, the term "Priest" is usually not used, only the term "consecrated one" or "holy one" is used. This comes from the fact that people become "consecrated" by the Gods themselves, via holy artifacts, and therefore these people kind of "belong" to the Gods they were consecrated by. I hope I could put it into English language what I mean, but I'm not sure.

Conserated Ones usually are NOT warriors.
The ONLY equivalent of "warrior-priests" are the Conseracted Ones for Rondra, the Golgarites for Boron, and the Praios people you can find in Drakensang 1 in that huge forest … I've forgotten their names … Because they can fight as well.

The biggest reasoin, however, why "Paladins" don't exist in TDE is that they just cannot use any kind of magic. They just don't, because they have no astral energy available (I think that the Hesinde church might allow magicians, but I'm not sure about that. For Praios, however, who does not like magic much, magicians who want to become consecrated ones for Praios, their astral energy gets "burned out", as I read once. Because Praios does not like Magic.

All their special abilities come from "karma energy", something that is given to them by the specific Gods themselves … And that's not easily replenished …

Plus, there are no Alignments in TDE as well.

All in all it's difficult to explain for me. It's a bit as if I wanted to play a Jester class in (A)D&D. It does exist in TDE …

One German-language discussion about this matter : http://www.dsa4forum.de/viewtopic.php?p=1116949

Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
Its a paradox that "paladin" appears in Demonicon which takes place in Shadowlands, full of demons, doom and darkness. But it may be also english translation issue.
I guess so …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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April 13th, 2014, 22:22
Jester in D&D ? Easy in 3.5 - a Human Rogue/Bard/Swashbuckler with the Feytouched Feat

In AD&D you probably would have to play a Gnome Buffoon (It's a Gnome Thief/Mage Kit).

Thats the nice thing of D&D - in some obscure Source-Book you usually find everything

I read your link and I'm a little bit happy to have guessed the most paladin-like Classes - Bannstrahler (called praiot in DraSa 1 AFAIK), Ravenknight and Rondrian Priest (yeah, sure, they are called something like blessed, choosen or whatever…) - and I haven't played TDE for 20 years… but I still read some novels and loved every single one that featured the Raven-Knights

Edit: That is, if you mean a "Narr"; if you mean a "Gaukler", it's even easier - it's a Rogue with high acrobatic and social skills that (usually) doesen't steal (there is a "Feat-Rogue" in unearthed arcana that can't even backstab…)

Still another Edit: I guess the number of Smilies per posts is a Indicator how many beers I've drunk before posting…

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Last edited by Fenris; April 13th, 2014 at 22:57.
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April 14th, 2014, 21:11
LOL

To be honest, I wasn't aware that one can do so much with (A)D&D classes and multiclassing. I thought that it was rather fixed - but yes, I should have been aware of that already, since I played DDO for a while …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 17th, 2014, 14:08
Something for Alrik regarding TDE lore:

- Phileasson's character- its known that Phil. was pretty reasonable, cosmopolitan (unlikely for a Thorwalian) and honorable man. But despite all of that he was also Thorwalian pirate. I wonder if he was more reasonable or mild pirate, if he acted according to some personal codex of honor. Was there some boundaries he would never cross unlike other common pirates? For example: did he ever plunder common poor village? Did he ever attacked smaller ship that doesnt provide any challenge?

- Did Middle Realm establish some kind of premonitory/watch system around Great River to warn cities when pirate ships are spotted? Something like system of watch towers + carrier pigeons or sending messages by magic etc.
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June 17th, 2014, 21:13
About "Philly" : Attacking poor villages is something normally no-one does; and it is against honour and the Twelvegods anyway (especially against Phex).

An "pirate watch-out" system was never installed as far as I know, and at least regardimng Thorwalian pirates this was unneccessary due to the fear of them for the curse to strike anyway. I don't know about other pirates … I don't have the description book for that region, as I don't have many anyway. It might contain things I don't know of.

Regarding the curse itself : I had bought the book "the Curce of the Riverfather" on the RPC, and the book told me that this curse was based on an love relationship between the Riverfather's son and an female Thorwalian piratre ages ago, which the Riverfather didn't like. THat's the reason behiond the curse the Riverfather made, and the book tells me that in current times not even the Riverfather remembers its cause. And his son "lives" (as far as faery creatures like that can live) cut away in another lake.

The book is basically an description foir a game master to make an adventure out of it, featuring a group of heroes lifting the curse (in the end) and battling one rather demonic creature from the Riverfather's court.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 8th, 2014, 17:50
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
About "Philly" : Attacking poor villages is something normally no-one does; and it is against honour and the Twelvegods anyway (especially against Phex).
It may be against honor, but Thorwalians are sailors and pirates and I think that sea gods approve their behaviour.
Do you think that Thorwalians in Aventuria act in accordance with some codex of honor which tells them which target they can attack and pillage and which one they cant?


Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
the book "the Curce of the Riverfather" and the book told me that this curse was based on an love relationship between the Riverfather's son and an female Thorwalian pirate ages ago, which the Riverfather didn't like.
But did the Thorwalians have any idea about the curse? I assume it didnt stop their attacks.
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July 8th, 2014, 22:38
Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
It may be against honor, but Thorwalians are sailors and pirates and I think that sea gods approve their behaviour.
Do you think that Thorwalians in Aventuria act in accordance with some codex of honor which tells them which target they can attack and pillage and which one they cant?
I should have made this more clearer : Each one of the Twelvegods has some kind of demonic antagonist - an Arch-Demon. The Antagonist of Phex lures people into not caring anymore where the Gold comes from (and other riches) : Greed is this Arch-Demon's curse.

So, if anyone in Aventuria for example robs poor people, the more this person is drifting towards this Arch-Demon nemesis of Phex … and might at one point get succumbed by the demon's whispers … The end result is a pact with that demon, and losing one's soul to that antagonistic demon.


But did the Thorwalians have any idea about the curse? I assume it didnt stop their attacks.
Everyone in Thorwalia seems to have known about it - simply because this curse killed those who tried to travel on the Long River … Or so I've understood it …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 25th, 2014, 18:19
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
So, if anyone in Aventuria for example robs poor people, the more this person is drifting towards this Arch-Demon nemesis of Phex …
Does it mean that Phex agrees with robbing of rich people and disapproves the same behavior towards the poor? While archdemon agrees with robbing anyone? So if you rob "a little" to survive, you please Phex? But if you are gready and rob anyone to be rich you please archdemon?

It makes sense but it also creates small contradiction between human's law and god's principle. Because you can be arrested by humans for theft but you can defend yourself that your deed pleased the god…

And who are the Phex-loving thieves in Ferdok in Drakensang 1? Are they some Robin Hood-esque good guys who steals for the poor? The writing was mediocre/bad so it didnt look that way.

And imagine this: Thorwalian pirates attack solid merchant ship and find out that most people on board doesnt have much property. Does it mean that they rob only richer victims and return all goods to the rest? Its hard to believe that Thorwalian pirates are gentlemans and "Robin Hoods" like that.


Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Everyone in Thorwalia seems to have known about it - simply because this curse killed those who tried to travel on the Long River … Or so I've understood it
Really? And when were this curse set? Because as you know in River of Time there were "some" thorwalian ships on Great River.
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August 31st, 2014, 04:55
The twelve Gods are the good guys, or at least the faction of order. Part of the phexian order is, that if someone is smarter then you, he deserves your stuff; (that's certainly not part of praios order, but some order). Phex appreciates brilliant heists, but to take something from the poor isn't challenging. Phexians are no Robin Hood, the proverb help yourself, then Phex is with you is a importand rule for them. They are more like Sportsmen, their Sport is self-enrichment, but they have rules.

TDE was streamlining fantasy-tropes long before streamlining was popular, so thorwalians are streamlined vikings - i.e. they have strong rules against slavery (in ancient times they had to flee their home because of slavers), while for real vikings slavery was a major source of income. But this taboo doesn't hinder them from taking the stuff of poor merchants. Thorwalians follow Swafnir, the God of Berserking (Son of the Sea-God and the War-Goddess); a god mostly concerned with killing the creatures of chaos that roam the sea, and not much else.

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September 7th, 2014, 17:41
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
Phexians are no Robin Hood, the proverb help yourself, then Phex is with you is a importand rule for them. They are more like Sportsmen, their Sport is self-enrichment, but they have rules.
It makes more sense than guild of "Robin Hoods", thanks. I assume these Phexian guilds have very similar core rules, but some local differences.


Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
But this taboo doesn't hinder them from taking the stuff of poor merchants. Thorwalians follow Swafnir, the God of Berserking (Son of the Sea-God and the War-Goddess); a god mostly concerned with killing the creatures of chaos that roam the sea, and not much else.
Well, that takes us back to my initial question about Phileasson because he is known as more reasonable, honorable and cosmopolitan Thorwalian. I assume that he is pretty mild pirate and he likes more to explore, to uncover new lands and kill monsters than plunder.
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September 7th, 2014, 18:19
Well, I didn't play the pen & paper "Philleasson's Saga" yet (the current book is pretty big and expensive !!!), but as far as I can tell he was never that much outlined as a real "pirate" Thorwalian. He is known for his "race around the world in 80s days" … err, wrong book … - but not for much else.

Not every Thorwalian is a pirate, mind you ! There are simple craftsmen and merchants as well !

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 10th, 2014, 22:05
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Therefore people won't directly be chosen by the Gods … with a few exceptions. Bearers of "signs" of the Nameless God, for example, or Gods acting in secrecy. Like sending visions, talking to people via dreams, during prayers … Priests are like cars set on a certain course - but what they (the Priests) do with it, that's uncertain.
The closest thing to an Paladin in TDE the consecrated one of the Goddess Rondra, for example.
All their special abilities come from "karma energy", something that is given to them by the specific Gods themselves … And that's not easily replenished …
So what if this paladin is just warrior priest (consecrated one) of Rondra who was given few visions from the goddess? So he sets for a quest, do some brave deeds, uses his karma energy, finish his quest and at the end is honored by Rondra herself. Rondra likes brave men. That could be equivalent of title "paladin" - devoted champion of a quest honored by the god.

Hero of Drakensang is similar champion - champion of Dragon Quest who was guided by prophecies, resolved dragons legacy and defeated Ardakor. But he is not consecrated one.


Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Not every Thorwalian is a pirate, mind you ! There are simple craftsmen and merchants as well !
Of course, but Phil is captain of a ship and his crew needs to eat and earn some money. So either he finds enough gold and goods on his heroic journeys or he acts as corsair or mercenary from time to time.
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October 21st, 2014, 19:17
Hello again,

I'm very busy in RL these days, so I cannot answer to every post anymore, I'm sorry.

Phileasson, yes, but 1. I haven't read the book about him, so I don't know him "personally", and 2. he just isn't presented as a pirate. As far as I know. It's up to our imagination.

It *might* be that he is properly descriobed in his own "Philleasson Saga", but I just can't say. And the newest edition of his Saga is just too expensive for me.

And Paladins - well, do Samurai exist in (A)D&D ?

It's it's just a word, a definnition of something, a word with which you describe someone. "Crusaders" don't exist in TDE as well - even though some people do act like Crusaders (against the Black Lands). It's jusat so that this word doesn't exist in TDE. As a definition of someone's "profession" or even "class".

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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