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Default Top 10 CRPGs of all time

July 23rd, 2014, 22:40
I wouldn't call it a lack of imagination so much as a tool for immersion. Part of being in the world is seeing how other characters react to actions and others and party banter can do that. They have their own motivations and desires and sometimes trying to bring opposites together has combustible results (much like real life).
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July 23rd, 2014, 22:50
Indeed, but those 'characters' are going to be the exact same characters every single play-through, and you have no personal choice over those characters.

You're just playing what someone else thinks would make for entertaining interaction. If you personally can't stand the key characters your going to be travelling with it can put a huge downer on every other aspect of the game, even if the game is, otherwise, gorgeous.

The ability to have varied sexuality for the same characters is a good start, but it's kind of just a tip of the iceburg really, a kind of apologetic cosmetic compared to true variety, the characters will still be 'shifty carismatic thief' and 'heavens to goodness with a dark secret healer' etc.
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July 23rd, 2014, 23:08
Different strokes for different folks.

How much of an impact it can have on replayability can be highly variable (as is people's willingness to replay the game anyway). Some games keep the required plot important characters down, some have lots of potential companions, others the same character will not be exactly the same on another play through depending on choices (Anomen in BG 2 for example) or even a mix of those things.

For me, roleplaying the characters myself lacks a sense of surprise. I think that's part of the appeal of Martin, characters simply aren't safe. There's always a chance for something unexpected to happen which isn't the case for many other authors.
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July 24th, 2014, 10:04
Originally Posted by greywolf00 View Post
I wouldn't call it a lack of imagination so much as a tool for immersion. Part of being in the world is seeing how other characters react to actions and others and party banter can do that. They have their own motivations and desires and sometimes trying to bring opposites together has combustible results (much like real life).
Exactly this. For me a great part of roleplaying means, that I let my charcter(s) perform actions in the game world, which in turn somehow reacts, where these reactions are not under my control. Combat is an action (where the gameworld's reaction is quite straight forward) as well as dialogs. With a game like vanilla IWD the gameworld's reaction is too shallow for my taste. Fleshed out companions could change that.

And of course I could roleplay 6 characters on my own. But a game like IWD imho lacks the framework to do so. If you take a look at NWN2: Storm of Zehir or of course now D:OS, you have party dialog systems where you can let the NPC actually interact meaningfully. Of course I could do all of that in my head, but for me that's not satisfying. I need some scaffolding here.

Originally Posted by MinorityReport View Post
Indeed, but those 'characters' are going to be the exact same characters every single play-through, and you have no personal choice over those characters.
Right, that's why I only replay games some years later (if at all).

You're just playing what someone else thinks would make for entertaining interaction.
Yep, and sometimes someone is dead on here, you have entertaining interaction and you just love the characters! And if you don't like them, in most games you can select from a variety of companions, so you can chose the ones you like. Of course with this IWD mod (or games like Blackguards) you indeed might have this problem.

If you personally can't stand the key characters your going to be travelling with it can put a huge downer on every other aspect of the game, even if the game is, otherwise, gorgeous.
Yeah, but I think that's quite the same with every other feature of the game. If you don't like the combat/crafting/music/visuals/etc. it can put a huge downer on every other aspect of the game, even if the game is, otherwise, gorgeous.

My current personal favorite approach would indeed be a sophisticated version of D:OS's AI personalities. Imagine if you could create some companions on your own (race, gender, class etc.) and then could add some backgrounds (e.g. like for the main character in DA:O), personalities, traits, quircks etc. and the game generates an actually consistent character from it, where dialogs/banter and general behaviour are derived from the given presets.
Of course this is quite hard to implement properly, but I think it would be a lot of fun.
Last edited by Morrandir; July 24th, 2014 at 13:44.
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July 27th, 2014, 09:19
My top 10 rpgs

1) Baldurs Gate 2 not including throne of bhaal
2) Betrayal at Krondor
3) Fallout 2
4) Starcon 2
5) Divinity Original Sin
6) The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind
7) Ultima 7 first part
8) Quest for Glory series excluding 3 and 5
9) Fallout New Vegas
10) Baldurs Gate + expansion

Notable up and comers to challenge this:
Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun Returns Dragonfall HD, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Legend of Grimrock 2
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September 1st, 2014, 08:02
You can rank games in many ways:

1) overall rank (very subjective -> maybe a mix from points 2) to 5))
2) rank in their own era (more objective and fair) -> top 5 games every 5 years: 1976-1980; 1981-1985; 1986-1990;…
3) playability today (can it be run/emulated on modern computers?; is gameplay still fun?)
4a) historical value gameplay (invented/implemented new gameplay elements)
4b) historical value technology (invented/implemented new technologies)
5) influence to the genre (has this game many (game)-followers? Has it become a blueprint?)

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
Last edited by HiddenX; September 1st, 2014 at 08:29.
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Default My top 10

September 10th, 2014, 23:14
1. Wasteland
2. Ultima 4
3. Pool of Radiance
4. Baldur's Gate
5. Fallout 2
6. Fallout
7. Ultima 7
8. Ultima 5
9. Legacy of the Ancients
10. Legend of Blacksilver
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September 12th, 2014, 08:41
1. Gothic 2
2. Morrowind
3. Baldur's Gate 2 EE
4. System Shock 2
5. Ultima Underworld 2
6. Ultima 7 Part 2
7. Planescape Torment
8. Fallout 2
9. Fallout 3
10. STALKER SoC

Last 3 could be switched out with KOTOR, Witcher 1 and Arcanum maybe, hard to say which i liked best

Edit: also, this and the "top bottom RPG's" should be in the Polls section, no?

SiiiiLENCE the DISCOOOORD…
Last edited by vurt; September 12th, 2014 at 09:57.
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September 17th, 2014, 01:18
My list

1.Mask of Betrayer - fantastic story, for some reason i enjoy it even more than Planescape: Torment. Really love the way they implement the dark side in this game.
2. Planescape: Torment - no need any explaining.
3. Fallout New Vegas - how i hope i can play this as a top-down game…
4. Baldur Gate 2 : very good story, great NPC intereaction + art style.
5. Fallout 2.
6. Vampire: The Masquerade - great atmosphere, very creativity quest + intereaction.
7.Divinity : Original Sin - i like this game more and more each day.
8.KOTOR 2 : the Sith Lord - great story, ton of bug but thank to the wonderful community almost all of them are fixed.
9.Shadowrun return + dragon fall - really like the atmosphere.
10.Arcanum.

Edit : sorry for including New Vegas, though it was about top 10 RPG
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September 17th, 2014, 01:41
Hard to say what my top 10 would be.

Ulitma 3 will always be dear to my heart as I got a disk doctor copy of it in grade nine for my C64. No books, a few scribbles on a page of the spells and my and my best friend spend 6 months on the phone figuring it out after school.

I did like Bards tale back in the day and there were a few others back in the day.

Loved both the Witchers and Dragons age.

Then this little gem called D.OS might have took over as my number one.

So many games back in the day and about a 10 year lay off where schooling and work took over.

Anyways sorry no top ten but those are a few games I really loved.

PS there was a game in the late 80's that I have been trying to remember where you lived in tree tops. It was more like a story book, I would l know what it was called.

Edited notes: if anyone remembers disk doctor it was easy to go though the code and find out how to make spells after finding where it was located…..

Second edit: in the late 90's I got into counter strike so bad…though I hated that sort of game I got very good at very very good. Guess that is what happens when you want to crush your friend at something.
Last edited by CelticFrost; September 17th, 2014 at 01:54.
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September 25th, 2014, 14:37
Originally Posted by VTTRoseRed View Post
My list

1.Mask of Betrayer - fantastic story, for some reason i enjoy it even more than Planescape: Torment. Really love the way they implement the dark side in this game.
2. Planescape: Torment - no need any explaining.
3. Fallout New Vegas - how i hope i can play this as a top-down game…
4. Baldur Gate 2 : very good story, great NPC intereaction + art style.
5. Fallout 2.
6. Vampire: The Masquerade - great atmosphere, very creativity quest + intereaction.
7.Divinity : Original Sin - i like this game more and more each day.
8.KOTOR 2 : the Sith Lord - great story, ton of bug but thank to the wonderful community almost all of them are fixed.
9.Shadowrun return + dragon fall - really like the atmosphere.
10.Arcanum.

Edit : sorry for including New Vegas, though it was about top 10 RPG
You have KOTOR 2 > KOTOR 1? That game crashed hard for me at two different points beyond the 15 hour mark that forced me to restart the entire game. Plus how do you top the first one's epic story? I can't disagree with your Baldur's Gate 2 ranking though - how do you go wrong with Minsc in your party?

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September 25th, 2014, 15:29
Originally Posted by anakin57 View Post
You have KOTOR 2 > KOTOR 1? That game crashed hard for me at two different points beyond the 15 hour mark that forced me to restart the entire game. Plus how do you top the first one's epic story? I can't disagree with your Baldur's Gate 2 ranking though - how do you go wrong with Minsc in your party?
I've always been conflicted about KotOR vs KotOR2, and I understand people in both camps.

KotOR was smooth and had a proper Star Wars story. It really felt part of the universe, which very few games and novels do (let's be honest, they're mostly rubbish).

However, KotOR2 has more interesting characters (Kreia being the best example) and quite a few engine upgrades (once fully patched, prior to that it's just buggy). It also makes use of skills to a different degree, which is good fun for people who like tinkering around with non-combat stuff. And you actually get to start out as a Jedi instead of wasting 8 out of 20 levels that could've been Jedi levels. Then again, you have to spend a lot of time digging around for lightsaber parts before actually being able to wield one.

I replay them both annually, usually more than once, but I can never decide which one is my favorite. It keeps changing. Needless to say, I enjoy them both.
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September 30th, 2014, 04:01
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
I've always been conflicted about KotOR vs KotOR2, and I understand people in both camps.

KotOR was smooth and had a proper Star Wars story. It really felt part of the universe, which very few games and novels do (let's be honest, they're mostly rubbish).

However, KotOR2 has more interesting characters (Kreia being the best example) and quite a few engine upgrades (once fully patched, prior to that it's just buggy). It also makes use of skills to a different degree, which is good fun for people who like tinkering around with non-combat stuff. And you actually get to start out as a Jedi instead of wasting 8 out of 20 levels that could've been Jedi levels. Then again, you have to spend a lot of time digging around for lightsaber parts before actually being able to wield one.

I replay them both annually, usually more than once, but I can never decide which one is my favorite. It keeps changing. Needless to say, I enjoy them both.
now you make me want to apologize to my KOTOR 2 disc and play that again - seriously though, good post. to me for RPGs storyline is just about everything, so that first KOTOR will always rank a little higher than it's sequel; i just felt that the storyline itself in the first was better than some of the actual, more recent movies (I & II at least), which is really saying something. that being said, i agree with you on the starting off as a jedi route in K2 - i just wish it wasn't so crazy buggy.

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