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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Risen 3 » Impressions after completing Risen 3

Default Impressions after completing Risen 3

August 18th, 2014, 01:04
I mentioned earlier that I'd be ready with some impressions by the end of the week, so here goes. I have now completed the game with a Demon Hunter, doing every quest and finding every item I know of except two (an unknown legendary and the recipe for Blades potions, which temporarily boosts melee skills). I also completed the Fog Island and Treasure Isle DLCs.

Edit: I found the final legendary item, so now it's just the potion recipe missing.
Edit 2: I found the recipe for Potions of Blades now. Seems I had forgotten to backtrack a small area with a high level chest in it. I think I've found everything now.
Edit 3: I've completed it a 2nd time now, this time with a Mage, and added some information at the bottom about companions and quests/factions.
Edit 4: As promised, I have now completed it with the third faction as well: Voodoo Pirates. I've added more information about magic and ranged combat.

For people who are simply interested in knowing whether or not they should buy the game: Anyone who enjoyed Risen 2 at all should pretty much grab Risen 3 right away. It's superior in virtually every way. For those who didn't.. well, it's hard to know really. Read on in that case and I'll try to answer any questions that people ask.

First I'd like to discuss the classic strengths of PB games - exploration, atmosphere and challenge, before moving on to combat, story, statistics, in-game economy and voices.

Exploration
It's excellent. There's really not a lot more to say than that. All the loot is hand placed, so every little corner of the world is worth exploring. The economy is very tight (will discuss that more later), so all the loot really is needed.

Swimming is back, which is something I rarely care about in games, but in this particular case it actually works. There are several secrets that can only be found by swimming around in somewhat unlikely places. Extensive use of flying (parrot form) is also needed to find many of the secrets, and that's another bonus in my opinion.

The only slight drawback is that the entire world is open from the start. How is that a drawback you say? Well, it leads to a lot of backtracking later on once you've gained the monkey and high lockpicking skill, as you'll likely bump into quite a lot of unobtainable loot on the first few islands you explore.

Speaking of which - I recommend going for thieving skills early on to avoid that particular problem. It's certainly not a major issue, but combing an island for the 3rd time looking for high level chests does get a bit tedious.

Atmosphere
The atmosphere is overall very good. Quite possibly the best since Gothic 2, and there's one main reason why it just won't come close to Gothic 1 or 2 for me: The music. I've always loved the music in PB games.

Don't get me wrong, the music is good and all, but it's somewhat lacking compared to previous PB games. I don't know why, but it could be because they're now missing KaiRo. In any case, the music simply isn't memorable.

Beyond that, the camps are certainly much better than anything found in Risen 2. They're not quite as good as the ones in Gothic 1 or 2 though, mainly because the sense of belonging isn't quite as strong as it could have been. It's still there though, which is more than most RPGs can claim.

Challenge
Sigh. This is what I call "The Big Problem". The reason why it's such a big issue is simply the size of the world: It's actually too big for a PB game. No one has ever solved the problem of having a giant world, open for exploration right from the start, while still maintaining a sense of danger and challenge throughout the game.

Let me try to explain:
When the player can visit islands A, B, C, D and E right from the start, islands B to E will be too easy once island A is cleared. There is no way to avoid that unless there's Elder Scrolls style scaling involved.

By the end of the game, even Shadow Lords couldn't actually harm me. At all. I'm not joking. The Demon Hunters have access to a protective spell which, in combination with maxed out toughness rendered me immune to all damage.

I don't really see any way to avoid that scenario either as long as the world is as big as it is. Gothic 3 had a similar issue - all of Nordmar was completely redundant by the time the rest of the game had been cleared.

The only possible solution in the future is to hold back some of the enemies and locations, so they can only be visited once you've discovered them through certain quests or some such thing. Either that or make somewhat smaller, more compact worlds like the one in Gothic 2.

At any rate, this issue affected the feeling of the game greatly, as I generally lost interest in loot or levelling about 2/3 into the game. That's a real shame, as the final third of the game is still quite a few hours.

Combat
As I've just mentioned, combat isn't much of a challenge near the end. However, it certainly is in the start, and it's quite a bit better than that of Risen 2. It takes a while to get used to the new power attack system, which is essential to master, but it works quite well once you get the hang of it. Most enemies, ranging from Goblins to Shadow Lords will kill you if you get it wrong, but won't be able to get a single hit in if you get it right. That's always been something of a PB trademark, which they got completely wrong in Gothic 3 I might add, so I'm glad to see that it's present in Risen 3.

Beyond the melee system, which is an upgraded version of the one found in Risen 2, there's now a magic system. The magic system is actually very, very good. By far the best PB has developed, and one of the most fun magic systems I've experienced in such an open world RPG.

Basically, there is no mana. All "classes" (Mage, Demon Hunter, Pirate) get access to all important melee and ranged skills, but they each have a unique style of magic:
- Crystal (only available to Mages): It's back, but it's not at all the same as in Risen 1. You get access to about 8-10 different spells, all of which are taught by the various Mages you come across. Most spells, ranging from healing to rain of fire, are all based on rather short cooldowns. There are three exceptions: Fire, Frost and Lightning basic melee spells. These spells can be used very similar to a sword, as they have melee range and combos, but are much better at area damage and obviously go through all forms of parry and block. They are, however, affected by resistances, so you should get all three spells and use the right one for the right enemy. Example: Frost against Lava Golems and Firebirds, Fire against water based creatures like Swamp Golems and Leviathans and so on and so forth.
- Rune (only available to Demon Hunters): Rune Magic is also back, and it's better than ever. It now has a basic attack, similar to the Fire/Frost/Lightning of Crystal Magic, but it also has several cooldown based utility spells. There are three fantastic one: A spell that summons a warrior to aid you, a spell that protects you from damage and a spell that increases your attack speed a great deal. Do not underestimate these spells.
- Voodoo (only available to Pirates): Voodoo also has a basic attack, just like other two types, which basically means that an almost pure magic user is possible for all three factions. Beyond that, it's mostly utility spells, such as lowering armor/damage or causing the enemy to go berserk and attack their own. I found it quite liberating to have permanent access to the Parrot spell, as I kept flying around all over the place. It's not only a fast way of travelling, but it's quite easy to spot secrets that way.

All in all, I'd say Crystal is best for pure offense, as it deals the most damage. Rune offers the most utility and Voodoo.. well, I don't know yet. I do know that it is possible to play as a pure Mage or Demon Hunter spell caster once you've joined either one. I'm not sure if that is possible as a Pirate.

Given how much I like the current magic system, I'm fairly certain PB will scrap it for the next game, yet keep the melee system and the problems with challenges/dangers. I'm still baffled by their decision to scrap the Risen 1 engine, but anyway, let's move on.

Story
I honestly don't understand why it has been criticized so much. I suspect it must be because the reviewer in question either had never played PB games before, or certainly never enjoyed them. The story really isn't half bad for a PB story. They're not world champions of story telling, we all know that, but this is one of their best efforts I'd say.

Beyond that, the writing is about as good as one can expect in a PB game. There is a minor issue involving the language used in certain cases. I suspect it's a translation issue from German to English, because it often ends up being a British guy cursing like an American in all the wrong places.

There was one issue that actually bothered me a bit though, but it's a bit of a spoiler:
Spoiler – Annoying story related issue

Other than that it's fine. I don't play PB games for their amazing ability to make me emotional.

Statistics
Levelling a character in Risen 3 is very similar to Risen 2. I'll explain it quickly for anyone who forgot the somewhat odd levelling system:
- You earn "Glory Points" by doing quests and killing stuff. It's basically just experience points.
- Glory Points are spent buying points in Attributes. This does not require a teacher and can be done at any time. Attributes include things like Toughness, Magic and Melee, and govern things like weapon damage and magic damage.
- Skills can be trained via trainers once you've obtained a certain level with a given Attribute. For example, Swordmaster, requires 100 Melee and is the highest Melee skill.

No skill requires more 100 in any given Attribute, so the "soft cap" is obviously 100. There's no real point in going beyond that. In fact, it's barely even possible, because the hard cap is actually 105. That's right, there's no way to increase it beyond that, even with potions and what not.

Like I mentioned previously, Risen 3 is probably a bit too big for a PB game and generally lacks challenges. A good illustration of this is that a perfect score of 105 is obtainable in every single Attribute with one character. I ended the game with the following stats:

- Melee: 105
- Ranged: 70
- Cunning: 105
- Influence: 105
- Toughness: 105
- Dexterity: 105
- Magic: 100
- Spirit: 100

I wasn't even trying to get perfect scores. I've worked out that if you get about 60 in every Attribute before using permanent potions, obtaining 105 in everything should be fairly easy. I will try that with my current character (a Mage) and report back. However, such high scores present more problems than they solve, as I will explain right about now.

Economy
You see, skills cost gold. A lot of gold. Given how easy it is to increase Attributes, it's very easy to constantly run out of gold. I managed to buy the skills for my most used abilities, but I had to pass on a lot of useful things.

I kind of like it. I think it's a wee bit too tight, as I didn't even consider buying weapons and what not from vendors, but I like not being able to ignore economy. In too many RPGs the economy can safely be ignored about halfway through the game, but that is not the case at all in Risen 3.

In fact, I strongly recommend hoarding anything you come across. Just grab it all. You know the economy is tight when you really want some 4000 gold skill and you have to sell 185 forks to get the final cash.

Of course, it's all irrelevant because every enemy in the game can be flattened without any of the 4000 gold skills, but it's still nice to see an RPG where the economy isn't completely broken.

Voices
Finally, I have to mention the voice overs. Who is responsible for this at PB? Or is it Deep Silver perhaps? I assume the German voices are good, because they always have been, but the English ones are so inconsistent. The actors are actually good enough, but you'd think they wrote the names of the previous actors on post its and forgot half of them somewhere. This is hardly a new issue in PB games though, as any fan of Diego should know.

Speaking of which, the originally actor of Diego seems to have resurfaced. Several characters in Risen 3 reminded me so much of him I'm certain it has to be him. Where has he been for the last 12+ years?

Also, the main character's attempt at sounding like a tough guy makes me think they were going for Christian Bale (similar look) with Bale's Batman voice. Someone should have told them Batman changes his voice to avoid recognition, not because it sounds cool.

The two worst cases of inconsistency actually annoyed me quite a bit:
Spoiler – Important, inconsistent characters

Verdict
All in all, I'd say Risen 3 is a very good game for PB fans. It's not without faults, however, and they really should adjust either the challenge or the scope of their next game. Still, it's a fun game for the most part and it shows that PB is still capable of crafting a memorable world to explore.

PS.
I'll complete the game with a Mage and then Pirate in the coming week, so I'll update this thread from time to time.

As always I'm hoping for some discussion or questions regarding the game.

I'll add future sections to the bottom just to make it somewhat easier to find.

Companions
Risen 3 has companions, just like Risen 2. They're rather similar in both games, except that they do have a few more funny remarks here and there in Risen 3. Overall, I'd say they work out quite well, though they do make certain fights a bit too easy.

Beyond that, I have one major complain about them: They're too identical in terms of fighting. There is no real difference between them in either game, except that one character in each game is able to heal you, making them greatly superior to the others. Personally, I just end up using the one with the funniest comment, but I hope they manage to make companions a bit more varied in the future.

Clarification on quests and factions
There are three factions in the game: Demon Hunters, Mages and Pirates. They have one island each, and they generally don't interact until the hero comes along.

Joining a faction actually takes a while, as it requires the completion of quite a few quests. However, there is one significant difference between Risen 3 and previous PB games with factions: The quests to join a faction will stay available, though you'll obviously be unable to say "let me join you" at the very end of the quest.

Example:
In Gothic 2 it was possible to join the Militia of Khorinis rather fast, but doing so meant losing out on a huge chunk of XP at Lobart's farm. Doing all the quests before joining a faction was very beneficial overall.

In Risen 3, this tactic is not a very good idea, as the only thing you'll accomplish is doing a lot of content without proper armor and abilities. The quests will still be there once you've gained all that. The only faction exclusive quests in the game are the three or so quests you get after joining someone. Everything else is open to everyone.

Ranged combat
As I've finally tried ranged combat, I figured I could add some information about it. It's mostly the same as in Risen 2, but slightly more powerful, making a lot of fights rather trivial. For some reason, cooldowns are now completely removed for off hand weapons (pistols etc) and significantly lowered for main hand weapons (muskets/shotguns). Once you have a high level musket + blazing guns talent, you're practically a machine gun. It is most certainly viable, but it gets a bit boring after a while.

All in all, I found the magic to be the most fun and overall best combat style, especially since the same stat also governs quite a bit of utility (depending on faction).
Last edited by Maylander; August 24th, 2014 at 23:23.
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August 18th, 2014, 01:13
@Maylander - good review.

I'm only halfway through the game, but I agree to most things you said already.

PS:
The German voice overs are good.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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August 18th, 2014, 01:29
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
PS:
The German voice overs are good.
I knew it! Are they consistent? For characters that were present in Risen 1 and 2 I mean.
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August 18th, 2014, 01:32
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
PS:
The German voice overs are good.
For the most part, yes, but with some notable exceptions: Eldric, the druid for example, who used to be voiced by charismatic and excellent Bodo Henkel, now has a horrible voice compared to Risen + Risen 2.
There are also a lot of recycled voices this time which is unusual for a PB game. Seems like they had way less VO budget than for previous parts in the series. Many of the lesser side quest or ambient NPCs have the exact same voice in the German version which is kind of annoying and "immershun" breaking .
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August 18th, 2014, 01:39
I've posted this to the main News page; it's excellent!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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August 18th, 2014, 01:52
Thanks!
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August 18th, 2014, 02:43
Okay, I still haven't got around to playing Risen 1 or 2, but I bought 3 just now. Once it downloads and installs, I'll be able to post some impressions here too. My take will be different than anyone who knows what to expect as I've never finished a PB game.

'nut
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August 18th, 2014, 02:47
Maylander, how long did it take you to complete one playthrough? Sorry if you already mentioned that.
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August 18th, 2014, 03:51
Awsome job!
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Given how much I like the current magic system, I'm fairly certain PB will scrap it for the next game, yet keep the melee system and the problems with challenges/dangers.
It's not PB only, they all do things like that.

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August 18th, 2014, 05:59
Wow! Well done Maylander! Thats a lot of effort.
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August 18th, 2014, 12:45
thanks for that! Really good write up that pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the game. I have to admit I'm never really that bothered about music in a game but playing this I miss the old PB music so much!

On the difficulty/combat side has anyone tried playing the game entirely without a companion? I'm wondering if it might be considerably more enjoyable like this given the lack of challenge and relatively small feeling of progression. At the moment I just feel like every difficult combat encounter is a case of 1 person soaking up damage (blocking or rolling) while the other smacks the beasty from behind. Whenever I've encountered things one-on-one (usually because Bones is stuck somewhere) the game becomes quite a serious challenge
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August 18th, 2014, 12:50
Nice review. I'm early in the game but I am very disappointed with the combat. Basically I am on the first island I visited, Ticuragua or whatever it's called, and I've pretty much cleared all enemies with Bones without levelling up whatsoever bar the first time on the tutorial island. I would prefer to try it on my own without Bones but it seems obvious to me that on my own it would be a total pain to get through so many enemies. I might force myself to do it though because otherwise there is zero threat which is very un-PB like.
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August 18th, 2014, 13:37
Originally Posted by bazmod View Post
On the difficulty/combat side has anyone tried playing the game entirely without a companion? … Whenever I've encountered things one-on-one (usually because Bones is stuck somewhere) the game becomes quite a serious challenge
You'll be forced to solo half of Gnomes island. A few aligators and couple of leviathans are there, so if you're coming from Risen 2, that should mean a highly challenging area, right?
Sadly, no. I've wrote elsewhere, in Risen 3 on normal difficulty combat is still easy. All those mobs from R2 that ment instadeath if you met them early (panthers, grave spiders, etc) you can solo in R3. Okay, maybe it's easy for someone who played all previous PB games. It's just that you're taking Bones with you because:
1. He's not Lydia - has comments (sometimes hilarious) and doesn't block any door
2. Better to sell than use provisions and he's a healer (although crappy one)

Bones in my game never got stuck. But on one island I was using Edward to clear it out (as he has his own quest there) and Edward did get stuck a lot!

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
No one has ever solved the problem of having a giant world, open for exploration right from the start, while still maintaining a sense of danger and challenge throughout the game.
Actually PB did solve it as you've said - in G2.
The problem with G3 was it got released prematurely. You can't polish challenges then.

In R3 the problem is not openworld, the problem is the easy combat. And they've made it like that probably to get better score from Angry Joe. And his type of players/reviewers. But I've watched his stream when he played the game, it was WTF is he doing? He was trying to play R3 like Diablo and of course was dying on hellhounds like crazy!

As Brian, I've started on Tacarigua and wiped out everyone and everything with no problem except two mage minions and shadow lord. And if I knew what I know now, I could do them too instantly, I was just scared from their heavy damage magic thinking it's like R2, high damage mobs mean high resistance/highHP mobs. Sadly, it's not like that.

Toka Koka
Last edited by joxer; August 18th, 2014 at 15:10.
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August 18th, 2014, 13:44
Maylander… the super fast gamer
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August 18th, 2014, 14:15
Which difficulty setting has everyone been playing on? I'll switch to hard if it really does get that easy, even if it won't fix the exploits like roll being infinite invincibility and the companions.
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August 18th, 2014, 14:42
I would definitely recommend playing on hard. At least then you have more reason to avoid getting hit. But it remains pretty silly. I'm still in chapter 2 and I want to pick up major magic skills later on so I haven't invested anything in melee yet. I have, however, invested a few points in Cunning where the pistols skill is located.

So what I'm doing for the most part now is mash the 'E' button, dodge, 'E', dodge, until combat is over. The pistol is very effective and WAY too effective against some of the supposedly harder mobs. I can take down a golem in three shots (no kidding and I don't have uber skills or a uber pistol… both stats cunning and pistol damage are in the 45 to 55 area) and grave spiders also go down real fast. Shadow lords? No problem as long as I avoid getting hit by that death wave or whatever it is. Spam 'E' and the shadow lord goes down in under 10 shots.
Seriously, a pack of scavengers or monkeys is way more scary than a golem or a grave spider. Definitely makes you wonder who greenlighted this…
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August 18th, 2014, 14:50
That's a pretty thorough review, thanks. However, I'd like to hear a little more on the soundtrack and how it compares to Risen 2's music. It's a bit disappointing to hear that it's not at all memorable. Not even one single track? Whilst you do note that Kai Rosencranz isn't present, this was also the case in the sequel as the composer was Bastian Seelbach.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis…74C743D5E8B3B2

Interestingly, I've always found that Risen 2's main theme eerily reminiscent of New Vegas's main theme, but that's another topic for another thread…
I still like the original soundtrack more; bit more subdued and contemplatively mellow. I think my memory of the time and place when playing the game was also stronger, which assists in making music more memorable.

Finally, I have to echo the sentiment of GG: The speed of completion is absolutely off-the charts ridiculous.

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You've a goodly way to go.
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August 18th, 2014, 15:19
Usually I'm the one who puts a word or two on games soundtracks, but here I still can't be completely sure as I didn't finish the game yet so it's possible I didn't hear every score.

Those I did hear, range from mediocre to under mediocre. Thankfully, none of it is irritating, but I see no reason buying this game's complete OST, if you do find a score you like, buy just that one on iTunes.

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August 18th, 2014, 16:22
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
That's a pretty thorough review, thanks. However, I'd like to hear a little more on the soundtrack and how it compares to Risen 2's music. It's a bit disappointing to hear that it's not at all memorable. Not even one single track? Whilst you do note that Kai Rosencranz isn't present, this was also the case in the sequel as the composer was Bastian Seelbach.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis…74C743D5E8B3B2

Don't get the wrong impression. The music is actually pretty good. It's just not Gothic good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xxckivBEY
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August 18th, 2014, 17:50
As someone who sucks at PB combat, I've been killed several times on the tutorial island The alligator got me and the water lizard got me and the warrior in the temple where you fall through the floor got me. Per Maylander's suggestion, I raised dexterity to 25 when I leveled and I put a little in magic and a little in cunning, I think.

I love all the loot that's hidden in various places. There are several areas that look like dead ends, but have a little nook with items in there. I found 7 chests in the first area and that doesn't count the ones in plain sight. There are also 9 parrot scrolls and those are kinda fun to mess around with. Tons of gold hidden inside fires too. Haven't figured out why….

Gonna restart and take Patty to the place where she firsts stops following you and then backtrack and go over the whole area real slow. I just followed the path in the very beginning and I'm sure I missed some clams and maybe some fights. I had 4000 points when I woke up and I'm wondering if you can have more.

'nut
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