Gothic 3 - Review @ Gamespot

Originally Posted by kalniel
It didn't of course, but why would you accept that quest if you were being a diplomatic character?

Because I might hope the designers allowed for different outcomes, with different consequences for different characters?

You have to use your imagination in games like that. I obviously can't explain my point well enough, so I accept your opinion that you could not roleplay in Oblivion. I however have a different opinion and greatly enjoy roleplaying, still, in Oblivion. Everyone is different and needs different things from a game in order to be able to enjoy it.

No, I understand your perspective. I just think you are giving Oblivion undue credit (see below). I somewhat enjoyed Oblivion for around 50 hours — I don't want to give the impression that I hated it — but I was always aware of missing elements and lost opportunities to be much better.

I really don't like that fact that Gothic 3 gives you so little choice over the character. To me that is one of the things that makes it a lesser roleplaying experience, and in that respect Oblivion has far greater choice. However that's not the only thing I care about in a game, so I still enjoy Gothic 3 despite it having (IMO) less choice.

Completely agree. Gothic would be all the better for having character creation.

edit: to further prove how different our experiences of the game are, my first time through Oblivion was with a hunter/ranger type character, using the bow almost exclusively - I love ranged weapons in Oblivion and don't find them underpowered at all

This really highlights were we deviate in opinion. I accept this is roleplaying…but it's a pretty limited form — that's my point. Not that Oblivion has no roleplaying. Could I not play Half Life (or whatever), choosing to use the pistol exclusively? Perhaps roleplaying a cautious guy who inches into each room, carefully scoping out the situation?

Originally Posted by kalniel
I however have a different opinion and greatly enjoy roleplaying, still, in Oblivion.

I really don't like that fact that Gothic 3 gives you so little choice over the character. To me that is one of the things that makes it a lesser roleplaying experience, and in that respect Oblivion has far greater choice.

I understand what you're saying, but I could argue that there is a game that is as much of a RPG as that - I got to choose my gender, race, appearance, and then even select and upgrade my main weapon and 'spells' as I progressed! There are two different endings depending on choices made.

That game is Jedi Academy - and it ain't an RPG!

Of course I'm exaggerating for effect, but to me taking a moral stand in a game is more role-playing than playing 'dress-up'. So many of Oblivion's 'choices' are 'do it or not'. No real external repercussions. And I absolutely hate the persuasion 'mini-game'.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Because I might hope the designers allowed for different outcomes, with different consequences for different characters?

Yeah that would be nice, but as always the more branching you have the less deep you can go. Oblivion provides choice *mostly* in selection of quests, rather than having fixed quests which you can complete a multitude of ways. Some quests have choice, some don't, but the real choice in Oblivion is not having to take the quest at all, and that applies to the Main Quest especially - which is a trademark of all Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall.

This really highlights were we deviate in opinion. I accept this is roleplaying…but it's a pretty limited form — that's my point. Not that Oblivion has no roleplaying. Could I not play Half Life (or whatever), choosing to use the pistol exclusively? Perhaps roleplaying a cautious guy who inches into each room, carefully scoping out the situation?

Perhaps you could, but I don't think the game designers have given any consideration to the game being played in that way, therefore haven't thrown any bones for doing so. Oblivion IMO does throw you bones for doing so - maybe not in readily explainable terms like specific rewards, but as far as a rewardable game experience I found I enjoyed it far more. Just because you have the freedom *not* to stick to a roleplay scenario, and can do what you like, it doesn't mean that that's the most enjoyable way of playing the game (and it isn't - Oblivion, like Daggerfall and Morrowind before it, is much less fun if you don't discipline yourself).

Originally Posted by txa1265
And I absolutely hate the persuasion 'mini-game'.

Oh I completely agree with you there - in my review of Oblivion there weren't all that many negative points, however that was definitely up there, along with over-accentuated level scaling, the oblivion realm, bad animations, poorer weather and sound effects, less books/lore, and occasional RAI mishaps.

oh god, that persuasion game…

"I like that! I dont like that! Oh, you flatter me! I dont speak such rot! Oh stop, youre embarassing me! I like that! Youre good! Get Lost, creep! I like that!"

Like a manic bipolar disorder sufferer on methampetamine

Speechcraft is a pointless skill as it is more frustraiting than fun to persuate. Because of that i rather used bribing or charm spell.

Security was a pointless skill too, because the lockpicking minigame let you actually open very hard locks even when your skill level was merely 15… It should havebeen totally character skill based like in mw. That way players couldn't abuse it so easily. and in the long run, minigames become tedious no matter how cool devs thought them to be.

In addition thieving isn't very rewarding because of leveled loot….

And the skeleton key was way too overpowered.

I never bothered to play the persuasion game and it never affected anything worth mentioning!! I'm surprised there isn't a mod which simply deletes it!!

I persuade with gold.
That persuasion thing is probably the stupidest feature of OB. And it's in real time, while the lockpicking minigame isnt. WTF ?