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December 29th, 2006, 01:35
I will not play a Vampire!! Sorry, let's just say my religious beliefs would not permit it!! As for Atari being difficult over patches and Troika helping out C08, I believe you are correct roqua!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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December 29th, 2006, 03:15
so your religion believes in vampires? aren't there some games like oblivion where you can get turned into a vampire? if that happened would you box up the game and return it?

ok i know this is a stretch but many people would say if they became para or quadraplegic they would rather die then continue living that way. once it happens to you though you see things much differently though. if you go along with the notion that vampires exist and that 'it happens' to you without your consent much like any other disease or crippling event then becoming one is no more evil or heretical than anything else. its what you do after that life changing event that determine your humanity/morality. a person who is confined to a wheelchair becomes humbled and many people would react to that differently. obviously in the case of vampirism you gain things in addition to losing some but you still must make choices. besides i don't see how playing a vampire is any more heritical to ones belief than playing an elf that kills other elves or drarves, etc.etc.
and if it helps put your mind at ease corwin you start the game as a human! just pretend it is called 'night life in la'
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December 29th, 2006, 03:54
Whenever I got turned into a vampire, or werewolf in any of the TES games, I reloaded an earlier save!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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December 29th, 2006, 04:02
Vampires, at least in the WoD, are the progeny of Cain. They've turned their backs on God and are damned forever. Isn't Corwin a reverend or something? I can see why a Vampire game would be distastefull.
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December 29th, 2006, 04:30
Spot on WEAPON!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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December 29th, 2006, 04:54
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
Also, I have some resentment about being in the middle of a slew of bugs in ToEE, and everyone at Troika just abandoning that game to finish Bloodlines—as I recall, they had one poor guy trying to do a patch(Steve Moret, I think) on his own time while they chased the dollar with another game they couldn't make properly. If not for the Circle of Eight efforts, ToEE wouild still be virtually unplayable. It just turned me off to the whole thing.
Let me preface the following comments by saying I understand your perspective from a consumers point of view and this isn't an attack on you…

…but what exactly were they supposed to do? Here's a quote from Linoleum on QT3 who used to work at Troika:
There was a patch done between GM and release, but if Activision hadn't authorized upping the Vampire headcount allowing the ToEE team to get rolled in, they would have all been laid off within a couple weeks of the game hitting shelves.
So, Troika has just spent nearly seven years in a constant crunch mode trying to stay on top of things and is essentially out of money — they're just about to lay everyone off. Activision saves the day (just…for a while) but they have paid for the staff to be working on Bloodlines, so they can't work on ToEE, which is Atari's project. They're in "crunch mode" working 12-18 hour days, so there's no time to take a week off and work on ToEE…in actual practice, who and how was the patch supposed to be done? And how could they not take the Bloodlines money to keep the staff employed rather than laying them off?

Keep in mind that Troika didn't invent ToEE and go shopping for a publisher…Atari came to them and contracted them for a project. It's Atari's thing at the end of the day — Troika didn't own the IP or even the usage rights. That doesn't mean Troika doesn't have any responsibility — they do — but that's between them and Atari to sort out. Atari are the ones that own the rights, contracted the job and sent it out to retail for you to buy.

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December 29th, 2006, 04:55
Bloody Prods. You take everything too seriously.
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December 29th, 2006, 06:56
well a closed mind is harderd to pry open than a jar with a toothpick so i guess i'll leave it alone…
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December 29th, 2006, 08:14
I don't consider I have a 'closed' mind, I simply have strong 'beliefs' in certain areas. I accept it's my own personal preferences, and I don't criticise others for enjoying things I avoid. Tell you what, if you don't try to convert me, I won't try to convert you!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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December 29th, 2006, 09:14
you are entitled to your beliefs and i apoligize if i was infringing on them. i still am confused though as how playing as a human that gets turned into a vampire and must deal with his disease/curse/blessing affects what you believe but if you say so i'll just have to take your word. are demons off your menu list for games as well? pagans? i'm simply curious and would like to avoid insulting you in future cases based on my own views.

an interesting moment occured earlier: i noticed that in medieval total war 2, which i went back to playing yesterday after taking a break from nwn2 where i had just gotten my stronghold: that priests who gain the attribute of open-minded' are given a +1 to unorthodoxy. after a few points are gained in unorthodoxy they are likely to turn into a heretic even if they have a high pious attribute. now i'm not trying to tell you what to believe corwin or say you have a 'closed' or 'open' mind just stating the probably obvious relization that either extreme is bad. but one of the biggest 'heretics' in modern religion was martin luther and he is also one of the biggest 'heros' to many christians, obviously excluding catholics.

another note about bloodlines you could play it without feeding almost entirely and use only melee and guns being just your average 'killer' if wanted to though it might be a bit tough.

— i realize that if i were a cat i'd be dead many times over—
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December 29th, 2006, 15:24
@Dhruin & roqua
I probably am directing my resentment at the wrong party re: Bloodlines & Troika. Atari is pretty famous for their lack of interest in quality control or the actual brass tacks of what's involved in making a game properly (MOO3). Troika, as I said in my first post, did what many companies with more funding and staffing seldom seem to be able to do, and produced two of my favorite games. The fact that they dug themselves into a hole and couldn't get out is unfortunate, both for them and for us.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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December 29th, 2006, 17:28
Originally Posted by doctor_kaz View Post
As long as we're talking about The Escapist, does anyone know what ever happened with Escape Radio? They had like four episodes and then it went away.
No one really announced anything but Fletcher stays shut and Shawn has his GWJ Conference Call. Sadly, it seems that we won't be hearing ER anymore. But there's always possibility for a new GWJ Radio program.
btw: article you're taking about was published in Escapist at least few months ago, it's only the republish

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December 30th, 2006, 00:40
I loved everything about Troika: their snappy writing style, their everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to game design, and their (obviously) heartfelt appreciation of the cRPG genre. However, after reading the article it seems their brilliant, Metropolis-inspired logo is missing a fourth spot on the dial: Testing.

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December 30th, 2006, 02:32
Curious wrote:- "you are entitled to your beliefs and i apoligize if i was infringing on them. i still am confused though as how playing as a human that gets turned into a vampire and must deal with his disease/curse/blessing affects what you believe but if you say so i'll just have to take your word. are demons off your menu list for games as well? pagans? i'm simply curious and would like to avoid insulting you in future cases based on my own views."

Having cast out a few Demons in RL, I have no problem killing them in a game!! As I'm surrounded by Pagans and many are good friends, I have no problem with them either!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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December 30th, 2006, 05:04
It is interesting that in some of the early 'post-mortems' for VtM:Bloodlines that there was recognition that a Vampire setting would immediately severely limit the audience for the game. Despite being a practicing Catholic and Sunday School teacher, I have no issue with this or Harry Potter or any of the others … though my vamps tend to be 'lawful good' as much as that is possible …

— Mike
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January 1st, 2007, 16:05
I was never into the whole "Vampire" thing either. I don't like playing one and I don't enjoy stories about them.

That being said, when Bloodlines came out, I was so starved for a new CRPG that I decided to try it out. I was glad I did because it was quite an enjoyable experience with gameplay that reminded me of Deus Ex in several ways.

I played a "Ventrue" clan vampire. Their very nature compels them to uphold humanity and treat humans with dignity and respect. It was the only one that "clicked" with me, since I would much rather have played someone who hunted vampires
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January 2nd, 2007, 15:52
I find it odd, that vampire mythology is found to be niche, when considering how there's lots of movies, novels and various merchandise centred around the vampire shtick. If vampires aren't mainstream enough to base a setting of computer game upon it, than what is? Only d&d modules? And even then only generic fairy tale stuff like forgotten realms. I guess Planescape was for niche players too?
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January 2nd, 2007, 15:56
Originally Posted by Gnidrologist View Post
I find it odd, that vampire mythology is found to be niche, when considering how there's lots of movies, novels and various merchandise centred around the vampire shtick.
That was my thinking as well - I was very surprised to learn that the use of the Vampire world was a audience-limiter.
Originally Posted by Gnidrologist View Post
I guess Planescape was for niche players too?
Since PS:T sold ~75k copies, I'd say yes …

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January 2nd, 2007, 16:18
Hmmm, I don't have Corwin's religious background, but add me to the group who would never play a vampire in any shape or form. It just doesn't interest me. Same with superheroes and robots. I just don't relate to those beings enough to enjoy playing the role. I almost never play an evil character for the same reasons. It doesn't "resonate" with me. I'm a "save the fantasy world" type of guy I did play Deus Ex and System Shock 2 but that's a rarity for me. It's part of the reason the Gothic series doesn't resonate with me. I don't "relate" to my character.
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January 6th, 2007, 20:50
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Since PS:T sold ~75k copies, I'd say yes …
Is there a reliable source for this extremely low number? It seemed so low to me that I did a quick Google search and Answers.com and IMDB quote ~400K copies for Planescape. The 400K number is confirmed by a posting of Scott Warner (designer on PS:T so it's a "pretty official" source ) in this thread at Qt3.
Of course, it would be interesting to know whether Answers and IMDB copied the number from that thread or from each other or whether Scott Warner is really the Scott Warner (very likely though as Qt3 is a dev playground and I think you get your background checked if you post under a dev name) but there are a whole lot of sources indicating that Planescape was actually commercially quite successful (including Feargus Urquhart BTW who -while not giving any concrete numbers- at least called Planescape a "commercial success" in this interview at Gamasutra (registration required)).
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