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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » BioWare - Interview Part 2 @ CVG

Default BioWare - Interview Part 2 @ CVG

January 23rd, 2007, 05:45
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
… [aside from the fact that no one said this] … that's real world-class behavior to threaten to leave when someone makes a harmless joke about the track record of the company Your Holiness works for.
We disagree on the definition of what constitutes a harmless joke about the company My Holiness works for.

So I'll just shut up and will leave you to your 'Thanks, Patrick this' and 'Thanks Patrick that' followers who seem to be more able than me to truly appreciate the presence of a world-class writer on these boards and his willingness to spend time with us unworthy plebs.
Speaking of things nobody said, let's discuss what I asked you to do. I didn't ask for universal praise. I didn't ask for all to acknowledge that BioWare's games are the awesomest games ever, and all other games are, as the kids on the street say, teh suk. I didn't ask you to begone from my sight, as unworthy of being in the presence of My Holiness.

I asked you to back up your attack.

Now, we were talking about BioWare having strong stories. You implicitly said that BioWare did not have strong stories, and then you slapped a smiley on there. Rather than demonstrate the ways in which slapping a smiley on an insulting comment doesn't work, and further expounding upon the ways in which Internet bullies attempt to assert dominance through such tactics, I'm asking for you to back it up.

Again, opting for truthiness, I'd say that there are wide range of things that you could justifiably attack BioWare on. I've talked about some of these areas, sometimes to justify and sometimes to agree as a player and as somebody trying to make those areas better.

But I don't believe that our stories are one of those areas. Barring the multiplayer-aimed Neverwinter Nights Original Campaign (which I hold is still a good story, just one that works better as a multiplayer game instead of the single-player epic most of us were expecting), our stories have always been top-notch.

I don't say "best" because it's all subjective past a certain point, and so many games were aiming for different things — I liked PS:T and I liked KotOR, two stories with some surface similarities that were trying to tell radically different stories; PS:T is in introspective interactive novel, and KotOR is a heroic interactive movie. So I'm not claiming that our stories are better than everyone else's, and that there are no other good ones out there. If I've mistakenly said so, please quote me and I'll apologize and take it back. But strong stories ARE our selling point.

If you disagree, then feel free to back it up.
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January 23rd, 2007, 05:52
And to answer other people — I don't need BioWare to be loved and adored by all. I love my job, yeah, but there are things that could have been done better (a stronger single-player OC story in NWN, more sidequests and radically better combat in Jade Empire (we hopefully got the latter with the Special Edition), and any BioWare project in the early phases of development has meetings about how to improve upon past successes and resolve past mistakes.

When Mass Effect ships, I'll quite happily tell you what I wrote and what I didn't, and if you liked the bits I wrote, wooo, and if you didn't, no worries. Until then, I'm a dude with absolutely no video-game credits whatsoever. I've got the insider's view, which is cool, but that's it.
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January 23rd, 2007, 08:10
Hey, Bioware revived the RPG scene with the original BG and it will always stand high in my estimation for that, if nothing else!! Do I think they are going the wrong way chasing after console titles? YES!! But that's just console hating me!! Do they write good solid stories with memorable characters? YES!! I wish KoToR a) was made into a movie (it would be better than many of the SW films), but b) didn't have stupid, annoying, console mini games which ruined the experience for me. With my slow reflexes, I had to get my son to complete them for me, or I would still be stuck unable to advance!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 23rd, 2007, 09:32
If KotOR was made into a movie it would be better than *all* starwars movies.
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January 23rd, 2007, 13:07
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"If KotOR was made into a movie it would be better than *all* starwars movies."
Amen, brother!
Hell if it hadn't have been for Bioware reinventing the SW universe, the license would have stayed in the toilet and would have been flushed, long ago in galaxy far far away.

Moriendor if your referring to me, as the adoring fan, I have never seen any of PatrickWeeks 's work's (heh, im working on a tongue twister here).
I was simply encouraging him to strive to make the best NPCs, not cause I think it will have any real effect, it's just this is important part of RPGs for me personally.
I would encourage anyone working on something I am interested in, even You and especially a Dev that bothers to stop by and chat, cause he enjoys RPGs, too.

Unless this your attempt to prove how rebellious you are by talking crap without backing it up, then I commend your efforts of hollowness in this instance. :cheer: :standingovation:

I mostly enjoy the NPCs you meet and interact with as in Bloodlines because to me it allowed in the most convincing and well done way, for us as PCs to communicate a feeling to an NPC instead of the other way around, though it did that incredibly well too, I referencing the Malk.

I would say making NPCs communicate feelings to us Bioware is one of the best and so is Troika, as has been said "best" is debatable.
Bioware has some of the funniest, thrilling, mysterious and dramatic moments in gaming history.
Here’s a list including the BlackIsle collection 2, though I am not sure why Planescape Torment is the only game omitted, which had some of the best party based NPCs in gaming history.
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/game…re-corporation

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
Last edited by Acleacius; January 23rd, 2007 at 13:15.
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January 24th, 2007, 21:24
This is more a general comment…

Bioware in 10 years ago is different company (or should be) from the company of
today. Aside from the obvious that bioware has grown a bit since the first yearly years, both people and companies change in a decade. As for Bioware's business decisions, I would maybe havde other choices….but then again, I'm sure that the two doctors which heads bioware know what their doing.

The thing is that the gaming industry is just coming out of its infancy —- and so its
to think more stragically than before, making sure that certain game devs. survives.
And in order to do that, game devs. companies like bioware need to make games which appeals more to 'casual gamers' (whatever that is?? )

Bioware still, however, imo, features games which has focus on strong stories.
(from what I've heard and what I've played of say NWN1 and KOTOR1). Personally, I was afraid that both NWN1 and KOTOR1 would be more action type games, than say BG2? but it turned out thy weren't. (I hope someone will clear this up for me: Bioware did make the origninal BG1 games or was it interplay or black isle ??) .

As people and corporations/firms mature, our perspective in life often shifts to something else. I know that I'm not the same person as I am today compared to the person I was say 5 or even 10 years ago. So, imo, firms age and become maure mature.

As I stated above, I wouldn't have made some of the business decisions that bioware did, of them being the decision to invest in a mmorpg. I can, somehow understand the reason to do this. However, if you look back at previous mmorpgs
then it only seems that blizzard's world of warcraft has survived along with guildwars. Even the mighty Microsoft couldn't get into genre with its Everquest,
just like Norwegian Funcom couldn't get into the market with its Anarchy Online.
But let's see how Bioware fares with their mmorpg.

Going the handheld way, producing content for the PSP, the Nintendo DS etc.
could be a sound business decision, imo. It seems to me that bioware has used
a big software company or two to move away from the D&D games. A decision I
think is very important since it frees bioware do their own thing, creating the games, they want to make.

And the games bioware wants to make is, obviously, games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. They might look shiny etc. but I'm sure that bioware will present a story underneath all that glossiness. I'm just worried that the FPS crowd (and by that I mean people playing Prey, Gears of War, and such games) might think that Mass Effect is an FPS game, since its main selling points up untill now has been
'shiny new graphics' and the conversation system, which mirror, or is similar, to
the speechcraft mini-game used in Oblivion. (this is just my personal opinion).

As for Dragon Age, well. I'll have to reserve judgment on this game untill further content is known. However, I find it something ??? that the PR for Dragon age just mentions exploration 'like in baldur's gate', but says nothing about the game being storydriven. I'm not asking that game info on the story be released, just a sort of confirmation that Dragon age will have a story. I really (and that's my personal opinion) don't care (much) about creating backstories for characters or the whole concept of going into a virtual world, being immersed in this world, living a
virtual life, doing what you would normally would do IRL, in this virtual world.

Mass Effect and Dragon Age as well are called roleplaying games for a reason:
You assume the role of someone else, which means you can choose to play as another character (or role) than you usually do in IRL. This means you can be a baddass character in the game or a saintly character, if you so choose. I really don't need to FEEL that I'm the main character or that it is me swinging the sword or pulling the trigger. And by me in this context I do mean the me I am in real life.

Roleplaying games to be a games in which you pick a character, then choose stats & abilities, then thesew stats & abilities decide whether or not you hit a person in combat or whether or not you're allowed to talk to this character or not. It really shouldn't, imo, be my personal skills with the mouse/keyboard which decide how much damage I'll do, (or if I hit at all). Maybe I'm just a bit concerned that my hand-eye co-ordination (which, btw, isn't that great) is being used to decide whether or not I'n being able to hit an NPC or a monster in the game.

I do, however, also understand the need for change, new things making its way into games as well as the use of the advances in the tech stuff being used in
new games. Varius gaming magazines tell us, the gaming audience, about this.

Unfortunately in live in a place in which the PC Gamer magazine isn't easy to get.
The only PC Gamer magazine, I have seen is the UK version of the magazine, and
that's only being sold at certain kiosks and the like. This means, that I,
unfortunately, didn't see the article in PC Gamer magazine about Dragon Age.
However, I've read near every piece of information I could find on DA on the net

PS: Patrick mentioned something about writing short stories about singing or talking swords ? Is it you then, who invented the annoying: D singing sword used in Planescape: Torment ??? It was a very funny touch indeed
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January 24th, 2007, 21:39
Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
I asked you to back up your attack.
OK. Will do that right now.

Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
Now, we were talking about BioWare having strong stories.
No. We were actually talking about them having "world-class" stories. If you would have said "strong" or "good" or "solid" (terms you and others used in this thread), I probably would have skipped it routinely, thinking to myself 'Yeah, whatever floats your boat', and I would have moved on as usual without a comment but what you said was…

Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
But if you pick up a BioWare game, you're going to get a world-class story. That's what we deliver.
… which sounded waaaay too pretentious in my opinion to just let it pass by .

Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
Rather than demonstrate the ways in which slapping a smiley on an insulting comment doesn't work, and further expounding upon the ways in which Internet bullies attempt to assert dominance through such tactics, I'm asking for you to back it up.
Dude, seriously, you could have even taken my "in the future" comment as a personal compliment since you haven't even been involved with any of Bio's so-far shipped titles as you said yourself in another thread .

Anyway, I'll try to explain why I disagree with you about the "world-class" label. This might be a pretty fruitless effort since the way that people experience a story will always depend on a huge variety of individual, subjective influences but I'll try my best…

First of all, we'd need to establish what constitutes a story as being "world-class". That's obviously very difficult but in my personal opinion, the difference between a solid, good, or strong story and a "world-class" story is that the general, public consensus about the quality of the story should be unusually high if the story is truly "world-class".

For example, let's take a look at Star Wars (the original trilogy). That is -in my opinion- without a doubt a "world-class" story since I have barely ever talked to anyone who disagrees or have (in my online life since the mid 90s) read any negative comments about this particular story.
There does seem to be a very widely spread, general, public consensus that Star Wars is great enertainment and that it has a very engaging story from the beginning of Episode IV all the way to the end of Episode VI. That's why I would consider classic Star Wars as "world-class" as seems to be the case with the other -what- 80%+ or 90%+ of people who have watched the movies and who have thoroughly enjoyed the story that was being told.

The same can -again just in my humble opinion, of course- not be said about BioWare games. I just fail to see this overwhelming general consensus about the greatness of BioWare games.
I read a lot of German and English game sites and from what I have seen, I would guess that the rate of approval for BioWare games is maybe at around 50/50 or 40/60 or 60/40 (it doesn't really matter). However, it seems to me that there are a lot of people out there who are with me in believing that BioWare games are overrated.
That doesn't automatically mean that we "haters" think that BioWare games are "teh suck". It just means that we think that it is completely pretentious and exaggerated if people refer to these games/stories as "world-class" or "one of a kind" or "bestest evah" or whatever people like to call it.

===

Finally, to give a concrete example, I will try to explain why I thought that KotOR had only a solid story… that is minus the -admittedly- truly "world-class" surprise turn of events. That was well done and the game did in fact reach something that I would call "world-class" status for five minutes or so .

The rest of the game was rather bland and boring in my opinion though.

Firstly, it started out way too slow. I think it would have been a better idea to turn some or all of Taris into a skippable tutorial. As a non-casual gamer I felt seriously under-challenged and was plain bored to tears after a short amount of time. A "world-class" game should ideally suck you right in from the beginning and never let you go again. KotOR did not manage to do that.

The game definitely got a little better after the trip to Dantooine and after obtaining Jedihood. However, one could tell from here on that the writers designed a lot of the quests with striking similarities to events and themes from the movies and even previous BioWare RPGs. Good. So they did their homework. I'm proud of them .

But maybe they should have concealed their efforts a little better. A lot of the quests (and especially their outcome) were way too predictable because you could literally draw direct parallels to scenes from -especially- Episodes IV to VI.
It is commendable that someone at BioWare tried to turn KotOR into a true Star Wars experience with genuine Star Wars themes but this approach also severely hampered creativity and originality in my opinion.

I mean even the "surprise" event was actually not that much of a surprise. From all the heavy borrowing from the movies, it was pretty obvious that something of the 'No - I am your father' type would eventually happen sooner or later.
The execution surprised me though. Gotta admit that. I expected someone on the council to be a traitor or something rather usual like that but that you were actually him … that was pretty wicked .
Well, as I said above, this was the game's "world-class" moment IMHO but just not enough to make the whole game and story world-class.

OK… so now we've had our turning point in the story. I was personally expecting the game to come to an end rather soon at that point. I mean there's no way you could top this, right? So why would you shift down a few gears and bore the player with simple every day quests and chores after this huge event? That is the question I would have for BioWare because that is exactly what they did.
Jeez. So here I am… Mr. Badass of the galaxy himself and straight on track to save it… and then some stupid alien race on that StarForge planet (Rakata) gets in my way and demands that I first settle some petty little conflict that they have with their cockeyed neighbors? Kidding much?

By the way, I actually consider this as a major weakness of both KotORs. The problem is that you are always just an off-world visitor to the planets you, well, visit. You're just passing through. You have no attachment. It's not your own world that needs to be saved but always someone else's or someone else's totally-unrelated-to-you business that needs to be taken care of.
Might be just me but after a while and a couple of planets, I really stopped caring much about the issues of alien (race) X or faction Y. I just wanted to reach my goal, i.e. get a piece of the StarForge so I actually began to regard anyone stopping me dead in my tracks as a serious annoyance.
Which was certainly not the plan of the designers. They probably intended those (side) quests to be entertaining content but -at least for me- that failed miserably due to the lack of any real attachment to the NPCs you meet or to the worlds you visit.

Well, I could go on about how I thought that the relatively small areas (Xbox's fault I've heard) turned me off (as opposed to a larger world that you can roam freely as in other RPGs) and how the hub and spoke model that you were talking about earlier almost turned some parts into a rather boring "grind" (like when you had to finish tomb after tomb from the Valley of the Dark Lords) or how the interaction with party members felt more like a babysitter sim to me than anything else or how it became rather pointless to take anyone but Jedi characters with you on your planetary trips later in the game or how the artificially prolonged ending (i.e. the seemingly endless spawns of Sith dudes) got on my nerves or how I often felt like I was playing through some sort of let's-make-a-role-playing-game 101 course because of the awkward NPC interaction/dialogues (the only thing "missing" sometimes was that the "right" dialogue choices would get highlighted) or how it sucked that some dialogue always looped back on itself rather than (unimportant) dialogue options disappearing once you selected them… but I think I've written more than enough at this point to make it clear why I do not consider KotOR as a "world-class" game or a game with a "world-class" story.

Solid? Yes. Fine. I can agree with that as long as the scale is something like world class > excellent > great > strong > solid > mediocre > bad > crappy > POS > FUBAR or something similar to that. But KotOR just is not all the way up there (by far) in my opinion.


$ Just my 2c $
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January 25th, 2007, 06:37
I had a lot of fun with KotOR, apart from the slow start, and I really liked the writing. It´s light years ahead of mediocre games.
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January 25th, 2007, 06:39
Your kind of on the borderline of cheating, since we were talking games and your throwing an example of a completely different style of entertainment story, movies which are not interactive.

I am not sure how well the original SW trilogy has held up in time to be coveted as "world class", though at the time it certainly had a huge impact.
It seemed to have been dying a slow death till BioWare picked up the franchise which does say something about BioWare's story abilities.
If it can pick your world class story in another entertainment medium off the floor and out of the toilet, how can it not also be considered world class?

Tarius was fun for me and yes some parts are seem slow but that is a weakness of the game genre and constraints of telling a solid world class story in games not the story itself, not only is the story interactive you have to spread it out over 30 hours interlaced with gameplay that must not fail to entertain either.

Of course selling out to m$ is painful (still) to any PC gamer who has been around for awhile and knows the superior format and all the things this represents.
Smaller levels, crappy graphics, crappy controls, crappy UI but after all is said and done it was the story and the gameplay that kept many playing and interested, selling 100 of thousands (millions?) of games.

I also realize that since m$ was willing to destroy the PC market to get in the console market out of selfishness and greed the only way for many dev houses was to go along where the cash was or die as we have sadly seen over last 6 years.

My biggest grip with BioWare is there forums, where paying customers are forced (they at least used to) to register giving more personal information than is necessary, just to be able to post even about technical issues about problems with the game.
This could easily piss off and alienate 20% 30% of their fan base (as it does me) and maybe one of the dumbest decisions in the history, though this has nothing to do with the employees, obviously.

BioWare
"I know, we can forced people to register on the forums that way we can protect against piracy to some degree"
"Yeah, great"
Fans
"but….What about our techsupport?"
BioWare
"All you have to do is give us your personal information, trust us to protect it and not turn it all over to JAsscroft.
Even if he says Al Qedia "Omg, they are infiltrating the US through computer games" and besides we won't even have to tell the customers we gave there info out"
Fans
"we just want techsupport, if you don't want us to post on your forums ok, but we need techsupport, damn it"
BioWare
"All you have to do is register, trust us"

I bet your saying to yourself (as you wiped the tears from your eyes), wow that is a tragic "world class" story but no it's RL.

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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January 25th, 2007, 06:50
Guys, do you think you could get back on topic? Read the thread title if you´ve forgotten what it is.

btw., I think the official "Bioware sucks" thread can be found on RPGCodex.
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January 25th, 2007, 11:05
First off, I want to say that bioware does indeed require you to register —- to post new replies or new threads in their technical forums for games. However, you're still able to READ the tech forums and you can go their support site as well. On bioware's support site, there is FAQ which I will guess answers about 80% percent of all gamers questions. Most gamers questions seem to be about failed assertion bugs or global variables and the like…

I have been around the bioware forums since maybe 2000 or 2001 and I, iirc, even 6 or 7 years ago, you were also required to register - to post new posts and threads. This is a common thing ong forums - well, even this one . (if you look for spoilers for your game, then you need to register the game's cd keys..)

More om topic:
Please remember that KOTOR was made with the license from Lucas Art, not M$ (as you call it - for some odd reason). It probably was Lucas Arts which made Bioware
focus the story on some elements from the movies rather than allowing bioware to
branch the story out in uncharted waters, and by that I mean, introducing totally new contents and such to the star wars universe. The star wars universe has been built for some 30 years now by Lucas Arts Inc. and looks the way it does and the stories told within this universe has to be within certain limits e.g. you can't suddenly have elves or orcs in a star wars game. (however, this could be kind of interesting …. ).

Loking back 30 years, I didn't even hear of this star wars game way back in 1977.
In Europe where i lived at that time also, disco was just beginning to be the new 'fad', not star wars. It was actually when I was in the US as an exchange student I first saw these movies, and I was, immediately hooked. (as many before me). I agree that the star wars stories are sort of world class stories, and by that I mean stories which fit into universe. They also sort of tell the story of one man and his aspirations and the good he wishes to do and the evil he does and the story
continues…with the next generation. However, I seem to remember that even the first star wars movies did get a sort of a mixed bag of reviews, if they didn't get outright negative ones….. The popularity of the movies seem to have been increasing over time…

As a teacher, I read a bunch of stories and I also know how to analyze stories etc.
This is not said to be on a high horse, but just to say many fairy tales in the world has the same story as the star wars movies. The difference lies in how well the stories are told, and to me, the stories in the star wars movies are very well told.

If we compare this with say the stories told in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, these stories
stand well up, imo, to the stories told in the star wars saga. And from what I've played of NWN1 and KOTOR1, the stories told also are very well-written and well-told. Having said that, you need to realize that placing a story in the D&D universe of forgotten realms or in the star wars universe do place some restrictions on how the story is told, and which stories you're able to tell.

As a side note, I'm really happy that the good ceo doctors of bioware enjoy playing gothic 3…which, imo, also a strong focus on a well-told and well-written story…
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January 25th, 2007, 11:30
I'm a bit split on this. I think Mo overreacted but I can sort of see where he is coming from. I thought KotOR's story was overrated by both the playing community and the media and I don't think BG2's story was that exciting. In both cases the story leans heavily on a female sidekick (Imoen, Bastilla) and a previous history (Bhaalspawn, the whole Reven thing) rather than my character as I see him.

That said, this is obviously an issue for me rather than most other players. I thought the Reven thing was a bit lame but everyone else loved it. A developer friend once said to me "if everyone else loves something and you don't understand why…you probably just don't get it".

And the biggest "But…" is that while I may think BioWare's storiess could be improved (and hence, arguably aren't "world class"), I can't point to any other developer who is consistently better or even has the same focus on story and characters, which really makes the point a bit disengenuous and proves that BioWare really is world-class as the market currently stands.

…but I'd still hope they re-jig some of the character archetypes (it's time for Imoen/Aribeth/Bastilla to take a break) and make me the real focus of the story for an RPG.

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January 25th, 2007, 14:29
aries100
"to post new posts and threads. This is a common thing ong forums "
Right, I have no problem registering a normal registration but BioWare's is (used to be) much more intensive and ask for more than normal forums.
In case your wondering yes I checked the Faq but didn’t answer my questions/problems.

"(if you look for spoilers for your game, then you need to register the game's cd keys..)"
Actually this is not true at least for me, I have always been able to look at spoilers and even do searches without registering, even during the original BG release, iirc though it's been 10 years so my memory is not sure.

"KOTOR was made with the license from Lucas Art, not M$ (as you call it - for some odd reason). It probably was Lucas Arts which made Bioware"
Right, of course they had to deal with LA but it was licensed to be a "xbox only" release title, i.e. when the first xbox console shipped.

This puts m$ in charge of proving tools, engine training and ship dates which was an 18 month dev title iirc, very short due to xbox debut.
As I recall (others have mentioned it differently) the time was so short Bioware was running out of time and LA was very helpful stepping in to do the movies.

I think you are correct I recall critics did not like SW, here in the US which if you go back and watch the original now it makes me cringe, it’s almost like watching a parody movie about SW, like Space Balls.

Dhruin
"I can't point to any other developer who is consistently better or even has the same focus on story and characters"
Yes well said and you know I don't think anyone has been trying to imply BioWare has written a perfect story.
Afaik the fact we are getting this some of the best stories and best games, especially when compared to what other games are offering, is remarkable.

It seems like the dilemma is based in the individual and the length, as most whom mention dragging or losing interest don't seem comfortable have a story play out over thirty hours, unless maybe the are constantly reading as in PT.

At 30 hours, hell that is Twice as long as the Star Wars movie series and personally I like the length and part of RPGs (to me) is the grind whether doing quest or exploring new areas killing mobs.

BioWare are giving us some of the best stories, in the best games, not to mention replay values are Not even factored in the 30 hours.

Hey let me ask you guys something, (I am reaching here) but do you think maybe you get board or the game dragging is possibly due to maybe you being tired at the end of the day from working/school/whatever playing games till your ready to go to bed?
I mean most people's brains really start slowing down after a long day before going to bed, then if you throw in a beer, wine or martini.
Well not only do some of my friends drink till they are slurring, if they ever told me some story was boring while they were slurring/sloppy drunk, id tell them to stfu.

Now if you guys play jacked up on caffeine, well that's a different story.

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
Acleacius is offline

Acleacius

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January 25th, 2007, 18:52
Thanks for replying, Mor. I appreciate the feedback, and that pretty clearly illustrates the differences in our viewpoints.

Our definitions of "world-class" are clearly different. My definition of a world-class story in the context of a video game is "ranking as one of the best", which is also the definition of "world-class" that Dictionary.com uses. I believe that BioWare is in World Class as far as story goes — if we put out a game, it's going to have a story comparable in quality to the best story-driven games out there. Not always at the top, but always in the running.

If BioWare is not one of the top five companies as far as story-driven games on the market at any given time by your standards, then we have different standards, and the ranking sites do not agree with yours.

Regarding KotOR:

1) Comparing a movie plot to a video-game plot is difficult, if not futile. The movie can do things that an interactive video game cannot, and vice versa. You might have a better comparison with a more linear game (that chooses your dialogue for you) like "Prince of Persia" (which had a story I quite enjoyed), but even still, it's a different medium.

2) I completely agree on the Rakata world. As, based on a conversation I had with a coworker yesterday before reading this thread, do other people.

Regarding Baldur's Gate: BioWare made it.

Regarding FPS people thinking Mass Effect is going to be a shooter: Good. They can play and blow stuff up and "A" their way through the conversations, and the rest of us can enjoy a good solid story.
PatrickWeekes is offline

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January 25th, 2007, 20:21
We may still compare a movie to a video-game by means of an abstraction: If that video-game were made to a movie, then how good a movie would it make?

When I posted that KotOR would make a better movie than all starwars films I was mainly expressing my distaste for all starwars movies. I think that the comments 'bland and boring' and 'something that I would call "world-class" status for five minutes or so' best apply to them, the original trilogy included.

If a movie were made based on KotOR's story, it might not win an Oscar prize, but it would definitely be first class story-wise. In fact I think that one of the game's failures was that it didn't elaborate on the story as much as needed. Also I am willing to understand that the representation of an ancient civ like the Rakata by a tiny settlement was due to various limitations; I used my imagination there.

On a side note, to my mind, Revan is definitely female and going dark the very last moment, thus Bastilla never played that an important role in my games. I must congratulate Bio though since it took me 4 playthroughs to romance Carth -let alone kill him- but that might be because I am myself male and normally choose to play male avatars. Some insights into female psychology gained also.
Lethal Weapon is offline

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