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Default The Future Of Tamriel

March 7th, 2007, 14:40
Oblivion made me lose interest in the franchise.

I've always felt that Skyrim is a likely candidate for a future game. It's familiar to the western players yet somewhat exotic. It is also possible that setting the game in a place with a lower population density would make the game more believable, but I dont think Bethsoft takes that into account.

And you will start out as a prisoner
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March 7th, 2007, 18:54
The future of tamriel is very easy to see. They just have to do it like always. They have to make somthing new. Every game of the series is different to each other. If they just make another oblivion with new graphics it wont work.
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March 7th, 2007, 22:15
But it would sell. Everything that's looking incredibly good sells nowadays.
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March 8th, 2007, 01:37
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But it would sell. Everything that's looking incredibly good sells nowadays.
Prey sold superb? Im not so sure that just graphics brings in the sales alone.

If bethsoft was to sell the *same* game again with new graphics it would hurt the sales definetly. Theres no way it would sell as well as oblivion. Since companys aim is to make atleast equal (if not more) money, its reasonable to say they will try to make somthing new of the game instead of just graphics.
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March 8th, 2007, 01:55
But the game will be something new… with wikings and much bigger Swords and Guns and Stuff and maybe even William Shatner and enemys that kill themselves if you i.e. fall asleep during combat, so that there are no frustrated players anymore - it will redefine the whole genre - once again

The Germans are a cruel race. Their operas last for six hours and they have no word for "fluffy".

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March 8th, 2007, 08:49
"Enemies that kill themselves if you i.e. fall asleep during combat" - Pure gold!
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March 8th, 2007, 10:40
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Prey sold superb?
Prey sold a million copies in its first two months. Not bad for a five hour game.

I hope Skyrim turns out to be a spinoff, not TESV. Between Solstheim and northern Cyrodiil, their Nordic themes, pine forests and snowy hills are pretty well-worn at this point. The only advantage to that setting is its scale: perhaps their second-generation terrain generator is finished, the LoD is kicking ass, and they're ready to build the best mountains and ravines ever seen in a game. But if it's just going to be another round of undulating height fields, why bother? We've been there and we've done that.

Statues wouldn't be better if they could move. Model airplanes would not be better if they were the same size as airplanes.
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March 8th, 2007, 15:56
Here's a snip from the fan interview with Todd Howard:
(here's the link: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i…2&hl=interview )

"14. Indubitably, Oblivion has seen a major shift in priorities where aspects specifically pertinent to cRPGs are concerned. Most apparent in that regard is the transition from a complex -sometimes complicated- game with faction politics, rich lore background and a large quantity of dialog to a game that emphasizes accessibility and above all else pure entertainment. Additionally, in contrast to its predecessors, Oblivion's game world is to be filled with meaning not by the game itself but rather by the player's own imagination. What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe you managed to achieve a proper balance between depth and complexity on one and accessibility and easy entertainment on the other side? What are your goals in this respect for future productions?

This is more of a statement then a question, but I’ll do what I can with it. First, Oblivion has more dialogue and books then our previous games, so I don’t see a shift there. It also has the most complex NPC behavior we’ve ever done by miles. As far as the game world being filled by the player’s imagination, that’s a common criticism we get on every game, and a valid one. I think we did a better job this time, I mean you play the previous stuff and the world is very static. It’s either nameless NPCs or ones that just stand in place all day. So that was something we tried very hard to address, to make the world feel alive. I think it’s getting better, but it’s still easy to think of 100 things to have the world do to make it feel more alive.

In regards to the politics comment, that’s a valid statement, in that Daggerfall and Morrowind both have main stories dealing with a lot of politics, and that wasn’t the story we wanted to do this time. There was a time that the Oblivion main quest featured a ton of that, dealing with the Elder Council, but we did end up cutting it while it was still on paper, in all our story reads, it really defocused the main quest from dealing with the daedra, which we wanted the focus to be. Anyway, I think the lack of actually seeing and dealing with the Elder Council is certainly one of my “I wish it had this” things, as we wrote some great stuff for it that just didn’t make it in. It was the “nobility” faction line, where you made your way up and became “The Duke of Colovia” and sat on the Elder Council. The only remnant of that questline in the dead Duke in Castle Kvatch, which was to be the beginning of that line.

The next part of the question, which is ease of play versus complexity, that’s a harder one. We’ve certainly gotten praised on Oblivion for how well it walks the line, but I wouldn’t say that all the solutions we had are the right ones going forward. Some are; some aren’t. It’s certainly our desire to push on both ends, to make the game as smooth and easy to play as possible, but have great depth. In the grand scheme of games, we’re still on the “insanely complex” end of the scale, so I do spend a good bit of time watching how first time people play the game, what hangs them up and so forth. So that always bothers me, you don’t want basic actions in the game to be difficult or confusing."

Obviously, the political content had to cut in favor of more action, like the closing of the Oblivion gates, or learning how to design trees correctly and naturalistic

What is it that people have been yearning for when they play Oblivion: more political content, more shocice & consequences. Even the Xbox kiddies think the game was dumbed down. (to appeal more to them, I guess).

The point is that I would have liked to so more, not less political content in the game, meaning that you could side with Ocato, the Elder Coouncil or both, or
you could side with the nobles of Tamriel/Cyrodill to overthrow the Elder Council. But this would, unfortunately have meant that you would to make a choice…

More in topic:
For TES 5, I would like to see the politics of it well integrated into the story, and the sidequests and the main quest becoming more integrated into another thanOblivion's were (and are).
Last edited by aries100; March 8th, 2007 at 15:57. Reason: adding content
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March 8th, 2007, 17:23
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Prey sold a million copies in its first two months. Not bad for a five hour game.
Was it a duke3d with upgraded graphics or was there somthing new in the game?
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March 8th, 2007, 20:15
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Prey sold a million copies in its first two months. Not bad for a five hour game.
Five hour game? Ummm… do you do speed + ecstacy + amphetamines + stimulants + caffeine IV all at the same time when you play games?
Seriously, I know that I'm a slow gamer because I explore areas very carefully even in FPS games but as far as I can remember, my end game timer read ~15 hours. I bet you can do it in maybe half that time if you rush through it like mad but anything under 8 hours would make me assume that the person is doing the above mentioned substances in significant quantities (or cheating) .
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March 8th, 2007, 20:54
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
But this would, unfortunately have meant that you would to make a choice…
I don't quite understand this remark.

Does it mean that "having to make a choice" is considered bad, maybe in terms of gameplay ?

If so, then I can only call these the "dark times".
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March 8th, 2007, 21:27
Alrik, the having to make a choice comment was from Aries, not Todd. If you're an Oblivion hater and was just being facetious, I apologize. I love Oblivion and so I don't keep track of the bashing that it gets very much.
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March 8th, 2007, 21:30
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
Seriously, I know that I'm a slow gamer because I explore areas very carefully even in FPS games but as far as I can remember, my end game timer read ~15 hours.
Mine read 4:45. Zakhal, it's a metal-corridor shooter with a few gimmicks. You leave your body to hit switches, change the direction of gravity in a couple of rooms, walk on some vertical walkways, walk through portals when they appear. Apart from that it's Doom 3.

Edit: He's not being facetious. Alrik, Aries was trying to impress you with the depth of his cynicism. Because that's impressive.

Statues wouldn't be better if they could move. Model airplanes would not be better if they were the same size as airplanes.
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March 8th, 2007, 22:00
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Mine read 4:45.
OK, you made me reinstall and check and I stand corrected . Mine reads 10:57:10, not ~15 hours. I must have confused Prey with some other FPS I was playing recently. Oops.
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March 8th, 2007, 23:04
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Mine read 4:45. Zakhal, it's a metal-corridor shooter with a few gimmicks. You leave your body to hit switches, change the direction of gravity in a couple of rooms, walk on some vertical walkways, walk through portals when they appear. Apart from that it's Doom 3.

Edit: He's not being facetious. Alrik, Aries was trying to impress you with the depth of his cynicism. Because that's impressive.
Must say Im dissapointed that it sold millions. I know the game and atleast in my eyes it sucks. There are better shooters out there than prey even if it took years in the making.

Still I dont believe bethsoft would make the next came an oblivion clone with upgraded graphics. All of their games have always been special in somway and had somthing new. If I want a pure 3d action game there are better ones out there than ES series. Im not going to judge them before they actually make the crime (destroy the series atleast in my eyes).
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March 9th, 2007, 03:48
Some quotes from the Shivering Isles preview in the latest Powerplay, which relate to a few people's predictions of the future of the series.
Originally Posted by Darren Wells, speaking to Bruce Nesmith
"The Shivering Isles has stories that deal with addiction, torture and betrayal [and] your choices and quests are rarely about right and wrong." What's this? Tasks that don't merely offer polar opposite outcomes? "The themes of some of the quests are a bit more adult and some of the choices are more morally ambiguous," reveals Nesmith. "You are helping out the Daedric Prince of Madness. The guy is bonkers. What he wants isn't always a good thing."

This time around, not only are their outcomes more twisted, but the path to reach them is moreso, with Nesmith saying that choice is "a prominent feature of The Shivering Isles. Even within the quests there are multiple solutions to the problems you face. For example, in the very first quest to get past the Gatekeeper of the Gates of Madness, the player can go it alone, or get help from a hunter in town, or find the Gatekeeper's Achilles hell, or both. All of these are viable solutions. You pick."
It remains to be seen whether this belongs alongside their promises of better combat (smashing success) or better AI (rather less so). We'll have a clearer picture of TES's future when the expansion arrives.

Statues wouldn't be better if they could move. Model airplanes would not be better if they were the same size as airplanes.
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March 9th, 2007, 12:45
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Mine read 4:45. Zakhal, it's a metal-corridor shooter with a few gimmicks. You leave your body to hit switches, change the direction of gravity in a couple of rooms, walk on some vertical walkways, walk through portals when they appear. Apart from that it's Doom 3.

Edit: He's not being facetious. Alrik, Aries was trying to impress you with the depth of his cynicism. Because that's impressive.
No, I wasn't.

I was just trying to point my grievances with Oblivion. And one of them is there really aren't any consequences at all for your actions. The fact that you are able to become leader of every guild there are in Cyrodiil (Oblivion) is, too me, not very
good.

In my comment I was referring to the fan interview with Todd Howard who said that a quest of somewhat political importance was cut from the game before release.

I then continued to point out that, to me, I would have liked a more deep & complex political scenario in Oblivion, where you could choose if you could side with Ocato, the Elder Council, or with the Nobles of Tamriel (Cyrodill).
This means that you must choose either road a) road b) or road c).

This also means that if you choose a) you automatically do not choose b or c.

And, unfortunately, to me, in Oblivion, there isn't many (or none at all)
choices like this.

The point of my post was also to say that I think that Bethsoft (and probably
others as well) have a totally wrong view of what Xbox kiddies want. Hence my comment about Xbox kiddies who thought Oblivion was dumbed down - to appeal more to them. (probably).

However, Oblivion didn't appeal more to these Xbox kiddies, since they too think that Oblivion is dumbed down. What it appealed, imo, is the image that everyone has about xbox kiddies. And this image is, imo, simply isn't true.
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March 9th, 2007, 17:01
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
The point of my post was also to say that I think that Bethsoft (and probably others as well) have a totally wrong view of what Xbox kiddies want. Hence my comment about Xbox kiddies who thought Oblivion was dumbed down - to appeal more to them. (probably).

However, Oblivion didn't appeal more to these Xbox kiddies, since they too think that Oblivion is dumbed down. What it appealed, imo, is the image that everyone has about xbox kiddies. And this image is, imo, simply isn't true.
I agree with this too, Aries. To me, Todd and Pete have an unclear idea of who bought Oblivion for the 360. I think this comes from their own forums. I don't know of a single adult (25 and up) who spends a significant time on those forums. The forums are a madhouse of young people and moderators who act like Mommy and Daddy, out of neccesity. If Todd and Pete go there to get ideas about what their target audience wants, those views will be severely skewed.
It'd be just as wrong to create Fallout 3 based on the forums from NMA.
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March 9th, 2007, 18:45
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
No, I wasn't.

I was just trying to point my grievances with Oblivion. And one of them is there really aren't any consequences at all for your actions. The fact that you are able to become leader of every guild there are in Cyrodiil (Oblivion) is, too me, not very
good.

In my comment I was referring to the fan interview with Todd Howard who said that a quest of somewhat political importance was cut from the game before release.
They cant always do everything imagineable for every game. That could be the next "new" thing in the game. Even console games can have complex plots and consequence of actions. Just look at KOTOR series or upcoming mass effect.
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March 9th, 2007, 20:10
Interesting.
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