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Default The Future Of Tamriel

March 9th, 2007, 21:33
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
No, I wasn't.
Sorry. I assumed that someone referring to "Xbox kiddies" would know that the average age of console owners is 25, and that the Xbox demographic is famously the oldest of the three. I assumed that someone holding forth on the popular perception of Oblivion would know that it was consistently voted into the top ten games of 2006 — all the greater accomplishment for a game released in March. I also assumed that anyone suggesting that an entire category of consumers believes something would know that it's a ridiculous statement, and that we invented social statistics to get away from this sort of generalisation. So it never occurred to me that you might be serious.

How did you arrive at your opinion of Bethsoft's opinion of "Xbox kiddies'" opinions? Voodoo?

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March 10th, 2007, 00:00
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
Sorry. I assumed that someone referring to "Xbox kiddies" would know that the average age of console owners is 25, and that the Xbox demographic is famously the oldest of the three. I assumed that someone holding forth on the popular perception of Oblivion would know that it was consistently voted into the top ten games of 2006 — all the greater accomplishment for a game released in March. I also assumed that anyone suggesting that an entire category of consumers believes something would know that it's a ridiculous statement, and that we invented social statistics to get away from this sort of generalisation. So it never occurred to me that you might be serious.

How did you arrive at your opinion of Bethsoft's opinion of "Xbox kiddies'" opinions? Voodoo?
I know this, and I have in varius other threads, both here and on the codex as well as on the TES forums mentioned this; that the average gamer is between 25-35 now, and that it also covers Xbox games. I also know that Oblivoion did get many awards, even if I do agree with this. [I don't think Oblivion is the game of the year, nor that it the rpg of the year - as I've stated before, to me, Oblivion is a kind of exploring/adventure/sandbox game in which there are some rpg element, stat, abilities and the like, but that's another discussion for an another thread because it goes to the heart of what an rpg really is].

However, when you look at the TES forums, you will discover that 2/3 of its members are between 13-19. This gives me the feeling that many of these
fans has been drawn into the TES community because of Oblivion.

And I just pointed out that some of the xbox kiddies on the TES forums also did feel or think that Oblivion was dumbed down.

I have also pointed out in varius threads in several forums that I personally don't think the Xbox kiddies wants action games, nor that they want to be handhold
throughout the game. But (maybe) that's what the developers of games for the Xbox (or consoles) think. And so they make these game for Xbox only.

If we look at it, more pure actions like Gears of Wars, Lost Planet and Prey are released for the Xbox ONLY. And as developers seem to imitate each other in the hope to earn a quick buck or two (or perhaps more) games like Oblivion get more and action elements stuck in them - in the hope that console crowd will buy them.
(Personally, I don't think this is so —- but I think that is how developers, not to mention how publishers are thinking).

I can make, of course, make qualified guesses about how Bethsoft's image or view of the Xbox market is. But I think I have a good grasp of the business side of the rpg market and it also helps that I have my degree in Social Studies to lean on when I try to figure out what is going to happen. (or what is happening to TES games).

Personally, I think Bethsoft decided (at some point) to appeal more to the action crowd (people who maninly play action FPS games on consoles) and to abandon a lot of their old fanbase (-cough- morrowind-cough) in the hope that with Oblivion the fanbase they then would drew into into the TES forums would be greater than the losses they would take when the (sort of) abanoned the Morrowind fanbase. But I have no proof of this, it is just something I personally think, and I base this on the economic studies I had to take to get my my degree in Social Studies. If this is so, I can certainly understand how & why Bethsoft
(or Zenimax Media) did make this decision, but that's not to say that I personally am very happy with this decision.

Even Pete Hines said in the fan interview that most players who played Oblivvion did so on the Xbox, and since most members of the TES forums are 13-19 years old…

I would like to stress again that I don't think that either these kids nor their parents only like to play action games and that just because there is more action games out for the consoles, doesn't mean that the xbox crowd doesn't want more quality games like say Mass Effect.
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March 10th, 2007, 00:30
@ aries100: What makes you think that Bethesda made the game for Xbox kiddies in the first place? You're just assuming that but you don't know.
I believe (and this belief is supported by what I read in various interviews with Pete Hines and Todd Howard) that it's much more likely that Bethesda did in fact make the game for the 25 - 35 year old (Xbox) gamer. The casual gamer obviously.
Let's face it: The "normal" 25 - 35 year old person has finished college (or is very close to it), has a job, has a girlfriend or a wife and maybe even kids and probably has some other hobbies besides gaming like sports, going to the movies, watching TV and DVDs, reading etc etc etc…
Those people barely have any time for gaming due to all of their other activities.
That is the target group of Bethesda. That's why there's level scaling so you can hop into the game for 30 minutes or an hour before bed time and have some fun instead of having to grind levels.
This game is (IMHO) 100% aimed at the 25 - 35 year old casual gamer crowd.
If this game would really be aimed at kiddies -who usually have plenty of free time after school, much more than the 25 - 35 year old casual gamer- then it would probably be a lot more hardcore and take much longer to achieve things in order to keep the kids interested in the game.

And don't forget that the game is rated 'M' so any responsible parent should just take it away from their kiddies anyway .
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March 10th, 2007, 04:32
Personally, I'm going to stick with my own personal(and others') Akavir setting theory, as it IS mentioned in one of the random "conversations" that I heard in Oblivious before dumping it like a bad habit.

Beyond that, fully expect further dumbing down e.g. beat, throw, make pretty lights for the skills, no books whatsoever(reading is teh hard esp. for the illiterati), single conversation "options", and more pretty grafix. I'd also fully expect the game to clock in at c. 10h(maybe less) of play time with a boatload of $3-5 2 or 3h addons.

Arena: yeah, it was big, but the game just felt poorly developed and limited overall.

Daggerfall: Sure it was smaller, but it felt like they actually made an attempt to flesh out the RPG "system", and conversation system. I also found the backstory to be much more interesting than Arena's and also appreciated the randomly generated quests in addition to the fixed/fully scripted quests along with the randomly generated areas. I really missed that the following 2 games as areas really felt like cookie cutter pieces, followed by an opposing direction in the RPG system, dumbing down in MW, and REALLY dumbing down in Oblivious.

I fully expect that Bethesda will see their sales for Oblivious as proof that all they need are teh pretty grafix and not much else, along with the host of other insidious design decisions that entirely ruined Oblivious(even with mods as so much is embedded into the engine itself). I could've tolerated Oblivious more if it weren't for those moronic design decisions and the truly crap A"I", even BW does a better job on A"I" and they're not so hot either.

On a totally unrelated note, it's nice to see that G3 has sold through .5M copies, as that surely must represent a reasonable profit for PB, so there may be hope for something better.
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March 12th, 2007, 20:10
I think most fans would be content (maybe even ecstatic!) if Bethesda remade Morrowind with:

- Oblivion's graphic engine (with PC - not console - interface)
- considerably improved facial textures/models (from the best mods)
- super-improved A.I. (radiant or otherwise)
- Tribunal, Bloodmoon and a NEW 3rd expansion included
- Improved level scaling with 2 difficulty modes: HARD & HARDCORE



That being said though, I hope the next one is in Summerset Isle.
And more than that, I hope Bethesda learns from all the negative criticism of Oblivion.

My wish list:

- Main quest leads to 3 seperate quests of which only 1 can be completed per play though.
- Faction/guild quests greatly affect main quest (dependent on which of the 3 you choose).
- Cannot join ALL factions/guilds - this is illogical.
- super-improved A.I. (radiant or otherwise)

Most of all, give us a a few choices as to where we start the game - make it dependant on which class you select. ONLY start me in a prison if I select a Thief-based class. Starting in prison is getting old, lol.
Last edited by Relayer; March 12th, 2007 at 20:19.
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March 12th, 2007, 20:38
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
Most of all, give us a a few choices as to where we start the game - make it dependant on which class you select. ONLY start me in a prison if I select a Thief-based class. Starting in prison is getting old, lol.
I agree that starting the game off with your character being imprisoned is a bit old at this point, but considering that they have done it that way for all four games in this series (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion), it's a safe bet that the next one will be that way also.

It's almost a nostalgia thing for Bethesda now. They consider it to be part of the charm of the game.

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March 13th, 2007, 01:37
Originally Posted by narpet View Post
I agree that starting the game off with your character being imprisoned is a bit old at this point, but considering that they have done it that way for all four games in this series (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion), it's a safe bet that the next one will be that way also.
Daggerfall was an exception. The game begins with the Emperor explaining two tasks for you to perform. You board a ship but a mysterious and violent storm sinks it almost immediately. You start the game where you get washed ashore (in a dungeon).
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March 13th, 2007, 01:40
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Daggerfall was an exception. The game begins with the Emperor explaining two tasks for you to perform. You board a ship but a mysterious and violent storm sinks it almost immediately. You start the game where you get washed ashore (in a dungeon).
That's true, but all of that is handled through cut scenes, not actuallly played. So you really start the game in the dungeon, which is kinda like being imprisoned (since you have no choice of whether you can start there or not, you're basically imprisoned by fate).

But you're right, it's not a prison per se… but you are essentially imprisoned

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March 13th, 2007, 03:29
Yes and it was rather awkward replaying it. I'd made myself unable to use iron weapons and leather armor. Guess what I started with!! Fists and feet are not really much fun against swords and daggers!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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March 19th, 2007, 14:00
- Cannot join ALL factions/guilds - this is illogical.
At least don't let a Redguard warrior, born under the sign of the warrior, join the Mages Guild.
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