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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch Feature - Elder Scrolls: Arena Retrospective

# Not linear

March 16th, 2007, 13:09
Yes I haven't played Arena yet and was trying to get a retro of what was non-linear from it as you said all quests were simple. But do they affect the game world much more then say Oblivion? I dont mind if them being simple as long as the gameworld is affected. I think that's a trademark of the TES series. Simple quests yet they change the game allot.
I wanted some stuff about the dungeons that are said to be good from the comments. Compare that to Oblivion's static banal dungeons.

"The artifact quests and the ‘main’ quest are a little different, but I’ll leave you to discover them on your own."
??? Were they good ???

Thanks

Guest

### #21

Posts: n/a
March 16th, 2007, 23:36
The quests were
Spoiler

IIRC the quests didn't change the game world any more than those of Oblivion did. Nobody reacted differently to you… unless you count the NPCs who gave you hints about the next part of the main quest.
Which reminds me… I never turned down a main quest giver's request. What would have happened if…?

What I remember best: the Liches, and the panic my invisible, fireball-toting, wall-destroying sneaker felt when she heard their howl in the distance (similar to the Daggerfall vampires). Being able to bomb my way through dungeon walls was paramount for my virtual survival.

Semper HiFi!
Motto of the 54th Groove Bde.

SC-2201
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RPGWatch Team

### #22

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,319
March 17th, 2007, 00:28
Arena was quite revolutionary but also evolutionary. Many games before Arena made me feel like I was in a grand story. Arena made me feel like I was in another world. One where I got to choose my own level of involvement. Daggerfall did the same on an even grander scale. I don't think any game since has managed to surpass or even equal the first 2 elder scrolls games in that respect.

Also, how many games have you played where your incredibly powerful Master Rogue with +32 Boots of Speed is totally confounded by a 6 foot wall? Sneaking into a city at night by climbing walls in Daggerfall for the first time was awesome. And yes I know the mechanic exists in a very few other games. But they all suck

Guest

### #23

Posts: n/a
March 17th, 2007, 00:35
I might do a retro on DF later this year; I'm currently re-playing it. While some things annoy me (you'll have to wait to find out ) many aspects are better than either MW, or Ob!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch

RPGWatch Team

### #24

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,326
March 17th, 2007, 10:08
Arena and Daggerfall were both quite cool games, especially at the time when they first came out. But one has to keep in mind that a lot of time has passed since they were released, and personally I think it begins to show. They might have appeared very complex when they were released, but I don't think Arena or Daggerfall is even *as* complex as the latest installment, Oblivion (and to be honest, it would also be very strange if it was). I think one has to be quite the old-school gamer or a huge fan of the series to be able to play and enjoy Arena today. I'm replaying Daggerfall a bit right now (since DosBox 0.7 runs it so well It is definitely absolutely *huge* (anyone knows exactly how many cities/dungeons? Seems like several thousands), but as a result it's also very generic. One particular game mechanic that I liked better in DF than in any of the sequels were how you had to keep working for a guild to maintain your status in it, and how you had to work a bit to gain access to the useful features like spell crafting etc in the mage guild. In MW and O it seems like you have instant access to all the cool stuff..

Sentinel

### #25

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 433
March 17th, 2007, 11:07
Actually, the plotting in DF is FAR more complex than in either MW (very weak) or Ob ( generic)!! It has a great deal of political double dealing and intrigue, which was sadly lacking (in any original way) from the later games. Yes, the dungeons, quests, and cities (not to mention the hopeless NPC's) are VERY repetative ( a deliberate design choice), but the storytelling and RP opportunities are superb!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch

RPGWatch Team

### #26

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,326
March 19th, 2007, 14:39
Originally Posted by Corwin
I might do a retro on DF later this year; I'm currently re-playing it.
I'm looking forward to read it. Oh and i would advise you to use the cheat keys to orient yourself inside big dungeons. The main-quest dungeons are cool but all the others were randomly generated by the thousands and are not very cool. With the cheat keys activated pressing [ and ] will teleport you to possible locations where quest items and people that were assigned to your quest. Mark/recall at the entrance always helps.

Unfortunately Daggerfall, even with the latest patch had some buggy quests. If you have a problem with one of the quests you can read the quest source here:
http://institute.no.sapo.pt/q/quests.html

I think this was taken svatopluk site but don't recall:
http://www.svatopluk.com/

Or check uesp:
www.uesp.net

Originally Posted by Corwin
While some things annoy me (you'll have to wait to find out ) many aspects are better than either MW, or Ob!!
Morrowind and Oblivion gameplay is so different than Daggerfall. This game plays like a 3d rogue with a main plot and Morrowind tried to use the Ultima 7 model with it's sandbox world. Morrowind wasn't such a bad game.

Traveler

### #27

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12
March 19th, 2007, 14:51
Originally Posted by KasperFauerby
It is definitely absolutely *huge* (anyone knows exactly how many cities/dungeons? Seems like several thousands), but as a result it's also very generic.
There are around 1000 dungeons in Daggerfall. They were procedurally generated so they look generic. The way Daggerfall works with quests; people, places and items are only linked to a quest when the player accepts a quest. So we can repeat the same quest always with a different dungeon to loot or houses to rob. It works like playing a rogue but dungeons are pre-generated and packed into a big .bsa file to be selected randomly when a quest is chosen.

Traveler

### #28

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12
March 19th, 2007, 16:40
DF is still for me the best RPG.

Despite the flaws, the setting was amazing and I loved the intrigue and plot - even if I wasn't used to even the slight non-linearity. The politics hinted at great things, even if it wasn't quite implemented all that well. That's kind of the story for DF really - hints at lots of greatness, not always implemented all that well. But with imagination it was peerless.

SasqWatch

### #29

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877
March 20th, 2007, 00:43
Thanks for the comments elander, but how do you activate those cheat keys? The most frustrating part of the game for me both when I first played it and now, was getting a quest to find blood, or wrappings, etc in say 6 days and clearing level after level of huge dungeons, having to rest after tough battles and then running out of time and failing the quest. I simply don't accept those anymore, I'd much rather guard something/one, cast sleep, or kill an Imp!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch

RPGWatch Team

### #30

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,326
March 20th, 2007, 01:07
If you are trying to raise in rank for a guild you can only do it once per month no mater how many quests you do for them as long as you have the skills and a positive reputation with the law for the guilds this applies. When you talk to the guy in the guild about promotion they give you a speech about power and responsibility and how it takes time for a guild member to be respected and stuff like that, meaning not enough time has passed. If you don't have the skills or the reputation to raise they will give an appropriate feedback message. This dialog isn't in the quest source but in a huge file called text.rsc . I will convert it to readable html one of these days. It's contents are amusing.

To activate cheats add the last line "cheatmode 1" to your Z.cfg file like this:

Code:
type dfall_huge
path c:\dagger\arena2\
pathcd c:\dagger\arena2\
mapfile d
rendergame 1
user 1
startMap 179
region 17
helmet 0
maxSpeed 200
controls betaplyr.dat
maps mapsave.sav
cheatmode 1
These are the most useful cheat codes:

Code:
Ctrl-F4  Invincibility
Alt-F11  Returns you to the last place you were standing
Ctrl-F1  Shows all map locations
[ and ]  Takes you to key dungeon locations
-        Raises your reputation with everyone
+        Raises all stats by 1
1        Move at six times normal speed
Sometimes we get teleported right on top of the foe we have to kill so in these case (it can be a ancient lich or vampire) turning on invencibility before teleporting is good.

Traveler

### #31

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12
March 20th, 2007, 01:11
Thanks, for that, were you involved with DF originally, or just a devoted fan?

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch

RPGWatch Team

### #32

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,326
March 20th, 2007, 06:30
Alt F11 was so good to have when you dropped through a hole in the world .

Semper HiFi!
Motto of the 54th Groove Bde.

SC-2201
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

### #33

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,319
March 20th, 2007, 09:12
Ctrl-f4 doesn't seem to work for me!! I found out the hard way!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch

RPGWatch Team

### #34

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,326
March 20th, 2007, 11:50
"Thanks, for that, were you involved with DF originally, or just a devoted fan?"

Just an old fan. Daggerfall used to have a moding community once. The quest src was extracted with a dos tool made by a linux hacker that was also used to mod new quests for the game. It must still be available somewhere in one of the sites i linked.

"Ctrl-f4 doesn't seem to work for me!! I found out the hard way!!"

Dosbox usually grabs the Ctrl-F? keys. There must be a way to remap Dosbox keys to something else.

Traveler

### #35

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12
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