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Default Nappy headed hoes

April 13th, 2007, 23:24
What I think, being born into a black neighborhood, and being half Cape Verdean, is that there are some issues that are always ignored when it comes to some social issues. The biggest one is the poor mindset. My father had this and my mother, being crazy, broke him of it. My father never thought he'd own a house, have a good job, etc, because he was born poor, and just truely believed that was above him.

My mother's family came here for the American Dream, and always believed you can acheive whatever you want in America. So she basically made my father believe in himself.

But the poor mindset can't be overlooked. Another aspect is that everyone today has an excuse. "I'm [this] so I the cards were stacked aginst me, its not my fault." Evetyone has so many excuses and someone else to blame but themselves. Black people don't have to be disproportionaly represented in poor neighborhoods and jails. For everyone crying about something that happened to them, or blaming their failings on this or that, there is an example of a stronger/better person that overcame the same odds/struggle/situation.

Personally, I blame white people for enforcing the excuses, and validating them. These same white people would be in the same boat if born into a poor black family. Weak-willed and pethetic. It just so happened that they were born into middle class or higher family and the odss were they were going to do okay, dispite being weak-willed and pathetic.

This goes hand in hand with margerettes defense of people that are "scarred for life" due to whatever. Not of they choose not to be. Strong people aren't. Everyone has a chance to excel, everyone has the same decision when presented with a gut-check. "Do I man up and drive-on, or quit because things got hard? This is a good excuse not to keep going, so why bother?"

If you saw "The Pursuit of Happyness" or any other story like that you know that, deep down, everyone is capable of great things.

One of my colloge professors (one of the handful I actually respected) had a very hard life. Had two kids by 18. Was alone, poor, overworked and underpaid. She had pride and didn't accpet any help or hand outs and is now the site manager of some place with like 4k people under her, has her masters, teaches two classes a week, is sending one kid to USC, another to a different fancier school. She didn't tell us this, the svhool had profiles of different people that graduated and did well hang around the business building, and I saw hers. Ans she's an Indian (feather, not dot).

Look at Vault Dweller, he has a family and works fulltime, but has a dream of developing games for a living. So he is making that dream a reality by scarifice, hard work, and dedication. How many of us would ant to develope our own games but just aren't willing to make the sacrifice or take the risk?

The creame will always rise to the top. The creame will never be held down in free society. Now, we all know a lot of people like this, but they usually aren't vocal about there achievements, since the only person they are trying to prove anything to is themselves. These are the best of the best, the people that started at the bottom and shrigged off everything life threw at them and plugged away silently until they got or get what they want. The people that can't be stopped or held back, because they won't allow it. They don't complain about their situation, they improve it. These people are far better then people that were born rich and got a little richer. And they don't judge others by where they are in life, but by how far the came in life. How strong they are.

What we have now is the weal making excuses for the weak, and the weak using excuses to avoid the hard work neccesary to improve. Held together be the common bond of being pathetic.

No man or women, black, white, yellow, brown, red, or whatever, with enough guts, grit, drive, or intestinal fortitude will ever be held back. They persevere and overcome.

There are huge socio economic problems in this country, and slavery and other issues are what might have originally been the reasons for blacks being held back economically, but the reason for this still happening, is that people aren't willing to correct the issue in a meaningful way. And that way is to stop accepting excuses and beat in every kids head that they are as great as they choose to be, and if they fail in life, it wasn't society that failed them, but their choice to be weak.
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April 13th, 2007, 23:45
@roqua: I agree with some of what you wrote (for once ) in #61, but again, you oversimplify. We are not all robots that start with exactly the same wiring and then either choose to succeed or fail. The complexities of what makes up a persons psyche that, in turn, drives their ability to persevere and their strength of will are mind-boggling. While the people you describe are every bit worthy of the praise you heap on them and are outstanding role models, it's just not as simple as "do as they do". And I'm afraid that although your use of personal experience may be illuminating in some way, it's anecdotal and therefore proves nothing.

I agree that there's far too much whining and self appointed victims. However, that does not absolve us of the responsibility of doing what we can to help those with more obstacles than the average person faces. One of the most important purposes of governments and cooperative societies is to protect and promote the well-being of their members. There is nothing wrong with saying "how can we, as a government/society/community do better and more effectively in order to help the most disadvantaged among us?" Without this, I'd suggest our government would be reduced to a policing and military function with no more purpose than to keep us from killing and cheating each other and keeping other countries off our a**.

As always, the devil's in the details. We're constantly debating, adjusting and trying out various approaches to promoting the public good. Some work, some don't, and most are hard to judge. But in any case, it's often not as simple as just "pull up your knickers and get a job." Believe me, I wish it were. A world like that would be much easier to live in, for sure…
Last edited by chamr; April 14th, 2007 at 01:12.
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April 13th, 2007, 23:56
imus may have not had malice in his comments but far more people have lost their jobs and more over much smaller mistakes.
tying in the duke rape case is also a horrible example as, it doesn't mean the players still didn't mistreat a female african-american. the similarity is that they are both cases of americas 'least 'powerful' minority-an african american female. sharpton and jackson are not female so their voices aren't relative. but neither are the people on the other end.
clarence thomas, kobe bryant: two african american men who raped/and or adultered african american women…and there both still doing fine today. personally i see both of these cases as sexism issues that are being used as ammo in race fights.

and in regards to a fair country lets no forget that it was almost all white people who got the majority of the land in this country (the easiest way to measure and hold wealth) for free or near it during the homesteading of this country. african americans who had contributed to the development and ecomony of the country for hundreds of years—left out.
individually everything should be equal and no one owes anyone anything, as a culture though are country owes them an immesurable amount, just like the native americans that can never leave the 'red'.
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April 13th, 2007, 23:59
…and another thing. You Al and Jesse bashers still don't get it, do you? They're simply playing their role and playing the game as the Constitution intended (i.e. with words and influence, rather than guns and oppression) exactly as their opponents on the other side of the playing field (e.g. O'Rielly, Buchanan, Roberston, etc.). They play the Race Card. So what? Others play the God Card. Some the Liberals Card. And then there's the Patriotic Card. And on and on…

What you reveal in your tirades against them and not the others playing the game is not so much that they've done something wrong, but that you harbor a deep dislike for them that goes beyond their rhetoric, and I'd suggest is worthy of some introspection on your part.

I have no love for Al or Jesse and have no illusions about the egos involved. I see things clearly. They are simply playing the game to the best of their ability within the rules established by the system to advance their agenda. No better, no worse than anyone else in the game.

And them's the facts.
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April 14th, 2007, 00:09
Excellent post, roqua. We are indeed the product of our own choices. Guilt and entitlement are two of the most anti-productive things operating in the theater of race relations, and life in general. As I said a minute ago, you don't do anyone a favor by treating them as a helpless victim for bogus reasons. Self-respect comes through acheivement, and acheivement through hard work.

This goes hand in hand with margerettes defense of people that are "scarred for life" due to whatever. Not of they choose not to be. Strong people aren't. Everyone has a chance to excel, everyone has the same decision when presented with a gut-check. "Do I man up and drive-on, or quit because things got hard? This is a good excuse not to keep going, so why bother?"

I'm sorry if I expressed myself so badly that you interpreted my remarks this way. I have empathy for people who are truly victimized—and people are every day—but I never suggested they not fight back or use it as an excuse. I suggested a way of fighting back(lawsuit) which you dismissed as invalid.
Also, you don't "choose" not to be scarred. You only choose how the damage affects you.
You're a fighter, roqua and I do respect your position. Please respect mine.

I don't advocate that the Rutgers women's team be given counseling for the cruel treatment and government subsidies for the rest of their lives—I just say that they have a reason to be angry, and that they are media targets through no fault of their own.

My grandparents came to this country from Sweden in steerage.They worked as servants in the homes of wealthy WASPs; my grandmother was a maid and my grandfather was a chauffeur. My mother was a single parent and worked in the hospital cafeteria. I grew up in the slums of Chicago, got my clothes from the charity bin at school, and worked my way (half-way) thru college. I understand the poor mindset, but my family never had it. My grandfather told me once when I was whining about not being able to have something or other because we were poor to shut up and never say that. You were not poor if you had food on the table and a roof over your head.
So I do understand exactly what you're saying. My advantage was that I had my grandfather to show me that life is about having the guts not to fail yourself. Some people don't have that advantage. One of the saddest things in life is that people don't learn from history, or from other peoples experiences. That's why kids think their parents are morons until they are in the same position trying to tell their own kids how to make life work.

@ chamr-also excellent reasoning. Excuse my own foray into anecdotal evidence.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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April 14th, 2007, 00:23
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
We've been having something similar down here with the head of the Islamic church in Australia who basically called non-muslim women 'uncovered meat who deserved to be raped'!! We're still howling for his head!!!! Even many of his own people are abandoning him.
Corwin I overlooked this one—that has to be good enough to get into the Guinness Book of World Records for most insensitive remark ever made.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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April 14th, 2007, 00:36
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
@ chamr-also excellent reasoning. Excuse my own foray into anecdotal evidence.
No excusing necessary. You used it to illustrate a point rather than as a proof of a general truth. It's a subtle but important difference.
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April 14th, 2007, 00:54
I disagree with the assertion that ranting about those guys shows a need for inward looking - start one on stem cell research or the hubris of the Bush administration or global warming and I'll get started on a whole different set of people.

Thing is, I see people like Sharpton & Jackson like Paris Hilton but with power, so it always bugs me when they are treated with undue respect and fear.

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April 14th, 2007, 01:10
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I disagree with the assertion that ranting about those guys shows a need for inward looking - start one on stem cell research or the hubris of the Bush administration or global warming and I'll get started on a whole different set of people.

Thing is, I see people like Sharpton & Jackson like Paris Hilton but with power, so it always bugs me when they are treated with undue respect and fear.
Fair enough, as long as you're even-handed with your disdain for all those in the political sphere that use cheap tactics, regardless of the slant of their agenda.
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April 14th, 2007, 01:39
Magerette, I do respect your oppinion. I just disagree with it, and infused drama into my disagrement for effect.

I also somewhat agree with chamr. His view is the one based most on how things really are. If my father ever married my crazy mother were would he be in life. But the fact remains that creame rises, and as a society, we can further the damage caused by the excuse-making, or we can minimize it and eredicate it. Like it or not, social stratisfication is a key concept build into this society. We don't want to accept "your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore." To keep them tired, poor, and yearning to breath free. The originators of this country wanted wealth to be cyclical. Just as the wanted all speach to be free. The door wouldn't be golden if it weren't true.

Now, the rich will always come up with new ways to protect their power, but that just makes the victory all the sweeter when you bust thtough the glass ceiling.

I think the greatest thing to happen to this country is the huge immigration of africans into it. (I don't give them a country since it I haven't met anyone from a specific country in the continent that would cause me to differentiate them as a whole). Most Africans that I meet are hungry. They don't see closed doors and racism, or if they do the opportunity they see outways it. The work hard, study hard, and get ahead. They don't care about black culture, or soft-shoes, uncle Tom's, or house-niggers. They care about the fact that if they actually have oppurtunity to live well, get ahead, and ensure a safe future for their kids who they will make sure continue to climb the ladder.

We owe a huge debt of gratitude to these immigrants, as well as chinese, indians, etc for keeping the dream alive, and giving the lazy, self-entitled pieces of crap of all social classes that are born here how this country is supposed to work.

If we listened to their narrative, of how they don't have opportunity in their countries, how things are run when the goverment control the press, and speach isn't free, or when you have reason to be scared of the soldiers of your country, the national dialgue would be much different.

The truth is, inner city people don't have it the worst in this country. The don't get the worst education. They don't have the least amount of property. The ultra rural farm people do. And they are predominantly white. These poor, retarded, hill billies have it far worse off than any city kid with their color TVs and shoes.

Now, Chamr. If we break things down into a bell-curve, like it is, and on one end we put Pat Robinson, and on the other Michael Moore, you have to, as a reasonable person, see that there are extremists on both sides, as you said. But, the far-right extremists have no traction, no platform. No one knows what crazy nonsense Pat Robinson is talking about or is condeming. The people that represent the right are far more moderate, where the left is controlled by extremists. So, 2.5% of the population represents a whole half of the curve on the left side, where as on the other side the people representing the curve are part of the curve. The people on the extreme right still vote for them, but thats because they have no one that anyone will listen to representing them.

O'Rielly is far from being a far-right winger. He is far more moderate, if for no other reasons then its for ratings, to represent the views of a much, much larger chunk of the population.

Why Jesse and Sharpton (I like Sharpton for entertainment purposes) are such bottom feeders is an issue of traction. They get national attention whereas Pat B's e-mail gets crap. Only one side is being fairly represented. And the other side is being controlled by people that it shouldn't.

I'm from MA, and live in RI now, and I can honestly say I never met anyone claiming to be republican or conservative from either place. But everyone of my friends disagrees with what ever issue I bring up and state their leaders oppinions on. I don';t say that until they disagree with it.

Sharpton and Jesse are doing what they should be doing, same as Pat Robinson, but only one side has any traction, and neither side should have national attention.

Bottom feeders of any sort should be exposed when they make a living providing people with an excuse to fail. And anyne who does not see how hypocritical this issue is with Imus is insane. Its silly, and a blow to free speach. Speach is now less free, and the people that aren't too keen about freedom are happy.
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April 14th, 2007, 03:58
[QUOTE=chamr;25627]…

I have no love for Al or Jesse and have no illusions about the egos involved. I see things clearly. They are simply playing the game to the best of their ability within the rules established by the system to advance their agenda. No better, no worse than anyone else in the game.
QUOTE]

You're welcome to your opinion, but that statement is a load of crap. Not everyone else in the game would go so far as to cost a radio jock his job over a stupid insult that was not premeditated or used in a malicious manner.
Remember, this guy is a 'shock jock' after all. At the same time, you have black rappers and comedians who say the exact same things on a daily basis with no issue whatsoever.

Sharpton and Jackson called the comments "abominable" and "sexist", but why are those words only abominable and sexist to Al and Jesse when spoken by a white man?
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April 14th, 2007, 04:34
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
Magerette, I do respect your oppinion. I just disagree with it, and infused drama into my disagrement for effect.
Well that's alright then.

**shakes head;can't believe roqua is infusing drama **

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April 14th, 2007, 08:27
Infusing, sounds like coffee!! Well, roqua's cream is rising and then it curdles and turns to cheese, I believe!! Half of you are arguing at cross purposes, while actually being in basic agreement!! Interesting how most countries, not just the US have similar issues!! Here, it used to be the asian invasion, now it's turned religious with Moslem/Christian conflict centred primarily on European hostilities from Lebanese/ serbian/croatian/etc immigrants who want to continue the conflicts they supposedly fled from to begin a new life here!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 14th, 2007, 11:20
Just wanted to point out towards a thing that seemed to me to be relatively important :

The issue here is not the word Imus used. The issue is who Imus is – a white man, who used a term about black women only black folks are permitted to use with impunity and immunity.
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April 14th, 2007, 11:36
Yes, it's only fair if we have different rules for different races, etc!! Or isn't that what racism is all about??

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 14th, 2007, 19:33
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I may not think highly of Pat Buchanan as a politician and may disagree with many of his ideas, but he is a sharp dude and that is right on.
Pat Buchanan did what Pat Buchanan does. He's a smart guy who's good at expressing the view on the right. He sure nailed it this time. That was Pat Buchanan at his best.

My problem with Pat Buchanan is his short-sightedness about other people's feelings. He's like the bigger, stronger guy in class who feels he's superior and sees nothing wrong with pushing the little guys around.

Al Sharpton is a buffoon. But he makes a lot of sense to a lot of good people. They're not screwed up. Al Sharpton is screwed up. And so is Pat Buchanan. Race relations are screwed up, and that's made worse by people like Al Sharpton and Pat Buchanan, because they're champions of "we're right" on both sides of the issues.

You can do ok for yourself telling people they're right, and that's exactly what Al Sharpton and Pat Buchanan are in the business of doing. They're salesmen who are too good at their jobs.
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April 16th, 2007, 04:06
It's really pretty simple for me. If "ho" is so terribly demeaning and derogatory that a guy can get fired for saying it, so be it. When Al and Jesse start stumping to clean up rap lyrics that use that dreaded term, I'll change my opinion. Until then, they're officially hypocritical opportunists. This racial double standard is total bull.

When the rules are different based on someone's skin color, that's racism. As long as Al and Jesse are happy with Snoop Dogg talking about his niggas but are pleased that OJ can get away with murder because one cop said the dreaded "N" word, they are every bit as racist as the people they publicly crucify.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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April 16th, 2007, 04:14
Amen Bro' my point exactly!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 16th, 2007, 16:05
Last night the entire life history of Imus was on 60 Minutes(what a surprize!) and it showed him throughout his career gratuitously insulting all kinds of ethnic groups and individuals, including the Clintons. He describes himself as an "equal-opportunity bigot."
It's ludicrous that this rather mild remark(for him) should cost him his job when he has made thousands of similar forays against good taste in the past.

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April 17th, 2007, 03:37
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
…or mistakes of the past that have nothing to do with todays world.
You are truly deslusional if you feel that the wealth of this nation owes nothing to the work of slaves. Some whites got wealthy off of slave labor and ripples of that wealth are still passed down through their families to this day.

How incredibly callous of you to reduce slavery down to a "mistake" - a fleeting moment of bad decision making that we should just forgive and forget about it.

Look, I agree that it is not productive for us (blacks) to dwell on this or expect anything from it. Its just not going to happen so we should move on. But it totally burns me up when I see statements like your that trivialize the shameful institution that was slavery in the United States.
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