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View Poll Results - america's worst disaster in recent history

september 11 13 50.00%
hurricane katrina 8 30.77%
what disasters? my computer is working fine 5 19.23%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

Default america's worst disaster in recent history

May 5th, 2007, 19:23
George Tenet was getting an advanced degree in International Affairs from Columbia University at around the same time that George W. Bush was developing an alcohol problem and experimenting with cocaine. How could he, or anyone else for that matter, not take the Director of the CIA seriously?

The White House rejected the notion that Sadam Hussein could possibly be arrogant enough to allow millions of his countrymen to suffer for nothing, but it seems it matched his arrogance with its own.
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May 6th, 2007, 01:11
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
If I am remembering his words correctly, he said that when he was first called to the White House after 9-11, in the aftermath of the attack, there was already an assumption that the war would be taken into Iraq. That no one ever asked the CIA or intelligence community whether there was any reason to do so…other than the likelihood that Saddam was funding of Al-Quaida.
Do you honestly think it would have made a difference? The government knew that Saddam had nothing to do with Al-Quaida… and they knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. I mean, all this wasn't a big secret… The UN always said there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and every expert on the middle east said that it is very unlikely that Saddam had anything to do with Al-Quaida.
The US government wanted this war - reasons are pretty obvious. It's what all governments do - they manipulate people. And they'll get away with it… that's really the sad part. I mean Kissinger got the Nobel Peace Price - if that isn't ironic I don't know what is.
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May 6th, 2007, 01:55
Originally Posted by Ionstormsucks View Post
Do you honestly think it would have made a difference? .
It would have made a difference to me.

If you had been in this country at the time, ISS, you wouldn't have believed the emotions. And that is the best time to manipulate people. Somehow though the karma comes home to roost. There's not a Republican politician in the country who doesn't feel about Bush the way the Dems did about Bill Clinton after the Monica circus. Some of the analysts on PBS(Public TV) were remarking on how none of the candidates at the Republican debate had the stones to even mention the 'B' word.

It says a lot that a professional cynic/aging hippie like myself can still be shocked by knowing without a shadow of a doubt that we were blatantly lied to from the day after the attack, and that the sons and husbands of women all around me have died, been blown up, had various body parts destroyed…because of one man's personal agenda. I worked with two young guys who had done tours in Iraq—one of them has just been sent back. They are not evil war-mongers, just in the National Guard for college money. They seem…unbelievably young, I guess, to me, to have to deal with what they are dealing with. For a lie, a personal vendetta, a profiteering scam, while the old men sit home safe and make the money…

I guess some part of my mind had taken in the WMD argument flaws, but it just didn't penetrate the brainwashing of the time 'til I heard Tenet.

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May 6th, 2007, 02:14
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
If you had been in this country at the time, ISS, you wouldn't have believed the emotions.
Don't get me wrong, I don't judge people… I'm not saying US soldiers are evil or the people that voted for Bush and trusted him are stupid. I'm just saying that this is a very old concept… it's like politics works, long before Bush. You take something that bugs people, something they are not content with or something they fear and then you use it to drive your campaign.
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May 6th, 2007, 02:54
Originally Posted by Ionstormsucks View Post
The US government wanted this war - reasons are pretty obvious. It's what all governments do - they manipulate people.
That's right. That's what governments do if they can get away with it. I'll never understand why, really. Government could do so much good.

I think Bush wanted to do the right thing. From his point of view, Sadam deserved to be captured and put on trial. We all know what a bad guy Sadam was, and let's not forget that he violated the terms of surrender in the first Gulf War, shot missles at US jets that patrolled his border, and plotted to assassinate a former US President (Bush's own father).

Iraqi expatriates living over here assurred everyone that the Iraqi people aren't fools. They pointed out how well-educated Iraqis are and how they would never get caught up in religious extremism, how they would welcome a chance at democracy and freedom.

I think Bush saw his chance and took it. To get away with it, he had to manipulate some people into believing there was just cause. And that's what governments do.
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May 6th, 2007, 04:47
Which is why I dislike politicians so much; they're ALL the same!! Doesn't matter who you vote for, you elect a politician!! What's worse, is that the country (almost any country) isn't really run by the politicians, but by the big moneyed people behind them and their party!! They call the shots and pull the strings; the pollies obey their masters or else!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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September 2nd, 2007, 02:50
I think Hurricane Katrina was worse from the aspect of the lack of intervention by the government until it was too late. It is not just the death toll, it is the rebuilding process required to get the community back up and fully functioning that has not been fully provided, however, the media attention and internation profile of Katrina was nothing like September 11.
I remember getting out of the car to get the early morning train and hearing a news report that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Centre tower. I travelled the hour into work and when I got there a small group of people were already in the building and were watching the TV. I could not believe what I was seeing, it really took a minute to comprehend. I remember seeing people on the street trying to escape the dust and debris when the tower went down, I remember seeing the people on the street and in nearby buildings screaming as others jumped out of windows to escape the flames. I remember the phone calls from people trapped in the towers, and from people on the plane that was forced down by the crew and passengers to prevent another target being hit by the plane. I remember the voices and transcripts of the calls. There were tears, and people were scared and didn't want to die, but even with their situation, they wanted to call someone they loved, and tell them they loved them, that everything would be ok and to pass on messages of love to others that they would not be able to farewell themselves. People on the plane that went down in Pennsylvania rang their loved ones and one of the flight attendants called hr husband, told him she loved him and to look after the kids and asked for suggestions of what else the passengers and crew could use as weapons to try and get the upper hand and reclaim control of the plane.
For me, the sacrifice and bravery shown by ordinary people and the emergency services was incredible, and the images and voices affected me deeply and even 6years on I still think of the phone calls, the people searching for relatives and friends that worked in the tower, the removal and sifting of rubble from the WTC site to identify remains and the people jumping from the building to avoid the flames and I still cry. As terrible as September 11 was, and still is, I also see a little bit of hope that people going through a horrendus time can band together, think of others and respect the memory of the dead.
Without being an American, I remember the date September 11, and think of these people I did not even know, whose voices I only heard for a few seconds, and I am affected, and will be forever by what I saw and heard on TV and read in newspapers.

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