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Default Fallout 3 - Todd Howard "We Care About Fallout"

May 29th, 2007, 04:33
I think it addresses something simple - a game may commercially fail regardless of what combat model it uses. The issue isn't with turn-based since there have been plenty of actiony RPGs which completely sucked the life out of anyone near them. All the investment in "let's make it cool for the action crowd" backfired more than, say, the investment that was made with Silent Storm which, in turn, helped Nival finance a sequel to S^2 and get a shot at Heroes of Might and Magic V.
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May 29th, 2007, 06:53
Yes and no. The list indicates that mediocre or poorly marketed action games may not sell very well. You have no major critically acclaimed or well marketed titles in that list. I think it's fair to assume the same applies to turn-based games. So, I think the real question is will a mediocre action title outsell a mediocre turn-based title and will a good action title outsell an equally good turn-based title?

I would be surprised if the action title didn't win out in both cases.

Note that I'm not being negative towards turn-based titles. I believe there is a (probably niche) market that could be addressed with titles that have appropriately modest development budgets. Unfortunately, efforts to address this "2nd-tier" market have largely failed and the indie market as a whole fails to impress (there is simply only one indie CRPG development house that has actually delivered over a reasonable period - Iron Tower, Basilisk and Planewalker may change that but they've yet to release anything and haven't proven there is a sustainable model; we'll see in due course).

Once we are talking AAA titles, they are inherently developed and costed for mass consumption and it's plain silly for people to have expectations to get the latest DX10 shaders alongside some beardy hardcore turn-based CRPG. Not gonna happen — and nor should it. The market is only big enough to sustain more modest development costs.

Bethsoft develops for the AAA market. The best graphics in the market are their trademark. They would be crazy to do a TB game, because their cost base and market just doesn't fit.

That's one of the reasons I think it's a shame Bethsoft picked up the Fallout license instead of doing their own thing but it's too late now.

Just quickly on Nival: only because their Russian cost-base is low. SS failed at the US market. They also amortised the technology cost over several (crappy) games. I like quite a few Russian/East Euro projects but it doesn't represent the broader market (and certainly not NA developers).

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May 29th, 2007, 08:40
While I tend to agree with everything Dhruin wrote, he missed one VERY important question:- Would a really good TB game outsell a mediocre RT/action game? The answer may still be yes, but it might not be as clear cut as many think!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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May 29th, 2007, 09:32
And I would further add, who will take up the glove that Deus Ex dropped, and do a really good FP action RPG with depth, and as well or better implemented character skill impact? There is a market there I would believe - who didn't like DeusEx?

Another aspect is if there can't be innovation in the turn-based section. I can't name a RPG that had really good turn based combat that I enjoyed jsut for the sake of it, while that was certainly the case for games like Jagged alliance. There must be ways to make turn based cooler and more interesting by truly taking advantage of that approach.
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May 29th, 2007, 22:22
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
And I would further add, who will take up the glove that Deus Ex dropped, and do a really good FP action RPG with depth, and as well or better implemented character skill impact? There is a market there I would believe.
I agree wholeheartedly. I enjoy turn-based games, because they're somewhat more accurate tactically, and they exploit role-play value better. But pauses are limitations, and forcing a pause in the action creates its own disadvantages. It also rules out the benefits of real-time first-person action.

It's not just about cool graphics. It's about cool games that are fun to play and the advantages/disadvantages of operating a computer at the same time. IMHO, software inevitably progresses toward solutions without limitations. That means fewer turn-based games in the future, unfortunately.
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May 29th, 2007, 23:33
And I would further add, who will take up the glove that Deus Ex dropped, and do a really good FP action RPG with depth, and as well or better implemented character skill impact? There is a market there I would believe - who didn't like DeusEx?
Hopefully someone! I can't understand WHY no one has tried to follow the path of Deus Ex. Yes, Dx2 was The utmost horrible disaster, but only because it went totally wrong direction. Every person who loved first game. hated the sequel.. Maybe there is light ahead, Didn't eidos announce that they were developing DX3?

And does anyone know what Warren Spector has been doing lately? besides those interviews where he is saying that he can't comment anything regarding the upcoming game….
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May 30th, 2007, 01:17
He's making a game with John Woo called Ninja Gold.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new…hp?story=14109

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Last edited by Dhruin; May 30th, 2007 at 01:41.
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May 30th, 2007, 09:26
"The idea actually started with John Woo. He wanted to do something involving traditional ninjas in a modern-day setting, and the idea just resonated with me. I was intrigued with the idea of what happens when the traditional and the contemporary come into conflict,” said Spector.
i can already picture the name in my head. "Real Ultimate power!"
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May 30th, 2007, 15:43
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
The problem is that even if the attitude is heartfelt it guarantees no great game. Todd and MSFD and all the other are/were similary passionate about Oblivion. I appreciate the attitude by itself, but it also proved pretty meaningless.
To you, perhaps. It sold 3+ million copies and it is loved by many. I've played Oblivion a multitude of times with a variety of characters and always have a great time. I'm thinking I payed less than a quarter for each hour of play. Remember that those who don't enjoy a product are much more likely to post. The rest of us are enjoying the game, we don't have time to post. Oblivion has a ton of depth for such a big game. Did they simplify a big handful of things? Yep. Would I like more options in certain areas of the game? Yep. Still it's one of the, if not THE, best sandbox game I've ever seen. Some of the official mods really fleshed out some weak areas. I found Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles to offer better storylines, while Vile Lair is pretty cool if you want to be an evil badass. Here's a few quests in vanilla Oblivion that I thought were really well done.

Mazoga the Orc-a multi-part quest to find out what's up with an Orc who's hanging around the Leyawin Court.

Zero Visibility-a simple, but humorous quest involving an invisible township.

The Collector-another multi-part quest involving seeking items for an eccentric High Elf.

Tears of the Saviour-Interesting backstory to this quest and it's told by a few NPC's and a book.
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May 31st, 2007, 10:16
I agree, no hate for any of the Elder Scrolls games here.
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