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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Bioshock - Widescreen and Securom Woes

Default Bioshock - Widescreen and Securom Woes

August 23rd, 2007, 20:19
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
So, what's your solution?…Give up copy-protection altogether?
I wonder how badly this worked out for Bethesda. IIRC, Oblivion had no PC copy protection. I believe it sold well. I suppose if they have copy protection on Fallout 3 we'll know that their number crunchers felt they lost money going that route. (I'm guessing people already know more details on this, but I haven't read anything substantive.)
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August 23rd, 2007, 20:35
Galactic Civilizations 2 has no copy protection either and it sells very well. They are allready making their second addon for it. Starforce tried to ruff them off for it:

that a website is implying that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated. Absolutely not! Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.

This got started because sales reports on Galactic Civilizations II have been much higher than anticipated. We've now outsold the first Galactic Civilizations in North America in the first 10 days. Last week we were apparently the #1 PC game at Walmart.

Naturally, some peple have taken the conclusion that because we don't have copy protection on our game, that we invite piracy. That is not the case, we simply think there are other ways to stop piracy than CD checks, strict DRM, etc.

What we do is provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.

Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once.

How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?

Our company also makes utility software. We've been around a long time — 14 years now. Our software gets pirated. We don't like it but piracy is a fact of life. And not every pirated copy means a lost sale.

The question isn't about eliminating piracy, it's about increasing sales. It's about trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it.

Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates.

If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy.

We realize that some people or companies might feel threatened at any evidence that implies that draconian DRM schemes or CD copy protection may not make that big of a difference in sales.

For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.

All software is pirated, there's no way around it. We've been making software for over 10 years. We don't like our software being pirated. Like I said, every lost sales has an impact on us. But there are other ways to reduce it than through draconian copy protection systems.

Incidentally, the site that Starforce's forum admin linked to "prove" how much our software was being pirated we visited, followed the instructions on the site to get our game removed and the links were removed within a couple of hours. We'll continue to follow-up with them.

Update: Starforce has removed the URL to the illegal files.

http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx…aid=106741&c=1
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August 23rd, 2007, 20:52
Wow! What an enlighted attitude! I agree with everything they said in there, and I'm guessing they did their homework and aren't just full of suppositions like I am. I kinda want to buy the game just to support people like this even though I don't want to play the game.
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August 23rd, 2007, 21:59
Originally Posted by Holly Avenger View Post
More worrying is that the latest version of securom copy protection that is used apparently installs a rootkit - one that cannot be removed totally from your system once in place.

And even better, if you installed the demo you've already got this lovely rootkit in place.
there is no proof to the rumour that it installs rootkit.

After the fiasco with it's previous rootkit on it's Audio CD's, Sony is attempting to be completely open on how all their DRM software works.

This SecureROM leaves software behind after installs which they advise can easily be removed. I wish people would quit accusing them of installing rootkits (previous history not considered) unless they have proof.

Sony is now in the position that Jack and the Box found themselves in after their food killed two people. (in their case they've now become the model for fast food safety.)

I doubt half the people who accuse them of installing a rootkit even knows how one works.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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Default Proof of Rootkit. News at 11.

August 24th, 2007, 00:41
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
there is no proof to the rumour that it installs rootkit.
Ignore the rootkit behind the curtain.

Seems that its not a rumor anymore. Also, there are several more links/threads about this then just that one.

2K/Irrational really seems to have shot themselves in the foot on this one.

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August 24th, 2007, 01:49
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Give up copy-protection altogether?
Yes, it is exactly what I want. Like someone else pointed above, I also respect benthesa for not putting any copyprotection software on Oblivion. In the nutshell its a conflict of intrests. Whose intrests are more important? Is it those people who loyally buy your games? Or do you try to maximize the possible profit and make sure that burning the game is more difficult. The former keeps your customers happy and lessens the ammount of possible tech problems in the future, while the latter pisses of only those people who have bought your product. Maybe in the short term your game will sell more, but longer term effects on your reputation can be devastating. Or maybe i'm just talking lots of horse shit here and the copy protection softwares actually have an huge impact on sales, but as a customer this is how I feel.

Do those copyprotection software really affect much on piracy? Do they force more people to buy their games legally instead of downloading them? I've seen many copy protected games on torrent sites and they don't seem to be much of an obstacle to them.
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August 24th, 2007, 02:38
Originally Posted by Nonymous View Post
Ignore the rootkit behind the curtain.

Seems that its not a rumor anymore. Also, there are several more links/threads about this then just that one.

2K/Irrational really seems to have shot themselves in the foot on this one.
I'll reserve judgement for now as I am hearing about a lot of false positives.

This doesn't mean that I think this is a good thing however. Some sort of SecureROM is being left behind with the demo even after the uninstall. It shouldn't have even been bundled. This is not good as I'll have to find something to clean this out.

—-

update: Apparently it can be removed by editting the registry with Regedit. So this does not make it a rootkit.

It is malware IMO and I am not happy!.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Last edited by Lucky Day; August 24th, 2007 at 03:14.
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August 24th, 2007, 02:50
The problems surrounding the pirating of games are these: (still not a recommendation,though):

First, off draconian copy protection will always get - ehm - cracked. (still not a recommendation). The quicker game developers etc. realize this, the quicker they perhaps will give up on these draconian measures.

Second, normal people can't play the games they have bought legally….because of this. And sometimes, and thridly, they can't even play the legally bought games on the gaming system of their choice. because of some DRM issues.

Fourth, if this continues, people will be very mad at one point. And simply not start buying new games that has DRM on them. And fifth, this would perhaps be the only language that publishers and game devs. alike understood….
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August 24th, 2007, 07:03
I did some more research

Two separate people can not duplicate the registry entry that the poster found who claimed the Bioshock demo contained a "rootkit" from SecuROM.

I did a find on my own registry and can not find it either.

I believe now, if this is not a hoax, and I don't doubt that it is not, that some other program has caused this and he has jumped to conclusions.

The fact that there is a registry entry does not imply there's a rootkit simply because no folder can be found. Its a poor rootkit that would advertise itself in the registry.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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August 24th, 2007, 10:18
The activation process is simply not working for me. I've checked and re-checked the serial number, read all their FAQs… it just wont activate. This sucks. I'll think twice before pre-ordering anymore games now, and probably wont but any games with this kind of copy-protection at all.
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August 24th, 2007, 10:40
Originally Posted by Badesumofu View Post
The activation process is simply not working for me. I've checked and re-checked the serial number, read all their FAQs… it just wont activate. This sucks. I'll think twice before pre-ordering anymore games now, and probably wont but any games with this kind of copy-protection at all.
So you have the retail version and it won't activate … have you called tech support?

— Mike
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August 24th, 2007, 11:21
The activation server had a burb or somthing just recently. It should install just fine now.
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August 24th, 2007, 11:59
It worked now. That was pretty frustrating for a bit there, but the game is simply amazing.
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August 24th, 2007, 13:49
There seems to have been a problem with Bioshock's and 2K's activation server. (it went down). It should, however, function now
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August 25th, 2007, 01:43
I havent yet bought Bioshock, but as System Shock fan I wanted to. Now I hear you can install it only 2 or 5 times, is that true? I must say, if this were the case I would not buy this game. I tend to replay games, and I want to play them again, even after many years, and if the game company doesnt exist then? It does make online requests to install, right? Well, what about ppl who dont have online, does the package say it needs online connection even for normal play? I wonder.

This is a bad step in a bad direction.
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August 25th, 2007, 03:52
I know this is a controversial thing to say - and I'm not saying I agree with 2K - but having finished it, if I never play it again I will not feel that the $50 was poorly spent.

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August 25th, 2007, 06:41
Originally Posted by elikal View Post
I havent yet bought Bioshock, but as System Shock fan I wanted to. Now I hear you can install it only 2 or 5 times, is that true?
It's limited to five times on different PCs (or operating systems) or if you run into a bug with the activation five times in a row (not very likely to say the least). On the same PC/hardware you can install and reinstall the game until you turn blue in the face or the DVD breaks .

I tend to replay games, and I want to play them again, even after many years, and if the game company doesnt exist then?
Aside from the extreme likelihood of cracks being available by then, it is not unusual for companies to remove any sort of copy protection with the final patch for a game some time (a year or so) after release. And that is exactly what 2K is planning on as well. They are going to release a patch at some point in the future that removes the activation limit. Ken Levine said so himself. Just check the official site.

It does make online requests to install, right? Well, what about ppl who dont have online, does the package say it needs online connection even for normal play?
The package says that an Internet connection is required to activate the game online. You only need to activate once. The game does not need a permanent connection to the Internet every time you play.

This is a bad step in a bad direction.
No, it isn't because pretty much every single one of your concerns = void .
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August 25th, 2007, 09:13
All this copy protection malarkey has got out of hand.
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August 26th, 2007, 09:28
I know this is a controversial thing to say - and I'm not saying I agree with 2K - but having finished it, if I never play it again I will not feel that the $50 was poorly spent.
Agree 100%, even if the copy-protection limited you to one playthrough, it'd be a better purchase than the vast majority of other games.
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August 26th, 2007, 16:43
Uninstalling the Malware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/98…-bioshock-demo
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