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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch Feature: Tales of Torment, Part 2

Default RPGWatch Feature: Tales of Torment, Part 2

August 6th, 2007, 14:55
Very, VERY nice !

I've read the whole two-part thing in one go now (without some spoilers), and I'm VERY PLEASED about the whole interview !

I see there are a few questions lef, so my dream would be a "community interview" - questions assembled by the community to ask them !

But anyway : Thanks.


@Arpyjee : That's why Larian keeps on self-founding their next RPG …


Edit : Just want to add that the magazine "Dragon", issue 354 from April 2007 contains quite a big article on the Modrons !
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; August 6th, 2007 at 15:01.
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August 6th, 2007, 15:07
Originally Posted by Arpyjee View Post
Yep.

But the CEO management mentality is so different (in terms of blatant greed) now in 2007 than even 5 years ago, that they won't likely put up funds/resources for the complex and highbrow project delivered by creative genius and their imagination. The indie route seems the only way.

Hopefully there is some change in the conformist corporate model over the next few years.
Time is on our side.

The game market is and has been growing for a couple of decades now. More and more people are playing games. More and more people are growing out of simple games.

Of course, there will always be many more casual gamers than gamers with a more, um, discerning taste. However, in absolute terms, the "discerning gamer" market is growing steadily as well.

Second, technology is improving. This means that it's easier and easier to do more and more complex things.

Together these trends mean that every passing day means that the cost of a small-market game is lower while its market is bigger. There will come a point in the not-too-distant future where publishers will emerge to take notice of this. There's a perfectly viable "art-house" business model out there; if not today, in the fairly near future.
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August 6th, 2007, 18:52
I assume you are right at some point.

When the point of overall saturatiuon is finally reached, we might actually see more "mature" games, because this particular group has been neglected in the greed.
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August 6th, 2007, 22:13
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Together these trends mean that every passing day means that the cost of a small-market game is lower while its market is bigger. There will come a point in the not-too-distant future where publishers will emerge to take notice of this. There's a perfectly viable "art-house" business model out there; if not today, in the fairly near future.
True. I think the major problem with that breaking point now is that this kind of market innovation usually comes from smaller, independent, more innovative-minded people, and the gaming market simply doesn't have those people.

Technically, the indie developers should provide that kind of burst, but the big problem for indie developers is not so much that there is no market for that people but that in this big market dominated by effective PR and press-manipulation, it's pretty much impossible to get word out to such a level that you can fully reach your market.

I think the point of saturation you note might be passed up without anyone noticing it, this way, because there's nobody to find and exploit the market, thus proving it's there.
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August 7th, 2007, 02:22
Did anybody find evidence that there really is consumer demand for innovative games?

It seems to me most people only say they want it but when an innovative game comes out they find all kind of excuses to buy game n+1 instead.
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August 7th, 2007, 03:03
If you leave innovative undefined that's too vague, Gorath, but innovation has historically always been a good business model. Y'know, like the Wii being innovative where the PS3 is not.

Also, the post above yours says:
I think the point of saturation you note might be passed up without anyone noticing it, this way, because there's nobody to find and exploit the market, thus proving it's there.
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August 7th, 2007, 09:52
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
I think the point of saturation you note might be passed up without anyone noticing it, this way, because there's nobody to find and exploit the market, thus proving it's there.
If a tree falls in the woods with no-one there, does it make a sound? If no-one is there to exploit a market, does it exist?

One nice thing about market economies is that they're pretty good at discovering and exploiting markets. If the potential for a market is there, sooner or later someone will find and exploit it. In fact, I think there's already evidence of it starting — for example, Space Rangers II: Rise of the Dominators and Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords are niche games that have been pretty successful in their niches. Sure, these are strategy titles, but I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't try it in the RPG genre.
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August 7th, 2007, 11:18
I'm not sure your examples are very good (without necessarily disagreeing with your point).

Space Rangers 2 was made for the Russian market (like many others) and couldn't find a publisher for 2 years. Excalibur picked it up for the UK and only after they had demonstrated the sales potential did a NA publisher eventually sign months later.

GalCiv2 was made because they can. They make most of their money from utilities and the game(s) are as much because Brad loves doing it as anything else. It doesn't really prove a company could exclusively pursue that games development model and survive.

-= RPGWatch =-
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August 7th, 2007, 12:32
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I'm not sure your examples are very good (without necessarily disagreeing with your point).

Space Rangers 2 was made for the Russian market (like many others) and couldn't find a publisher for 2 years. Excalibur picked it up for the UK and only after they had demonstrated the sales potential did a NA publisher eventually sign months later.

GalCiv2 was made because they can. They make most of their money from utilities and the game(s) are as much because Brad loves doing it as anything else. It doesn't really prove a company could exclusively pursue that games development model and survive.
I brought them up as examples of niche games that were commercially (reasonably) successful, which indicates that the market is out there. I did not intend them as examples of an art-house publishing business model (which they obviously are not).
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August 7th, 2007, 13:15
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
If a tree falls in the woods with no-one there, does it make a sound? If no-one is there to exploit a market, does it exist?

One nice thing about market economies is that they're pretty good at discovering and exploiting markets. If the potential for a market is there, sooner or later someone will find and exploit it. In fact, I think there's already evidence of it starting — for example, Space Rangers II: Rise of the Dominators and Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords are niche games that have been pretty successful in their niches. Sure, these are strategy titles, but I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't try it in the RPG genre.
I think you're overrating the mechanics of market economy by some margin, especially in one crowded by inept PR people and marketers that couldn't get a job anywhere else, like the gaming market is.

Still, sure it's inevitable. It's just not as inevitable as it should be.
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August 7th, 2007, 23:16
It depends on the definition of "success", of course. If the definition is simply an art-house developer breaking even doing what they love, I agree with Junta that the convergance of robust technology becoming cheaper and the growth in the gaming market providing enough revenue for indie games to offset the costs of developing games full time is possible, if not probable. In fact, the surge in the indie RPG's we've witnessed in the last few years would certainly seem to indicate we're headed in that direction.

If, on the other hand, the definition of "success" is established publishers seeing an attractive enough market in indie-type titles to add them to their business model in any significant numbers, I'd guess not. Why chase a little profit when there's a bigger profit to be had? If a publisher has resources to spare, it would make more sense they hunt down the next single title that has the potential to bring in millions rather than several smaller titles that have the potential to bring in hundreds of thousands, if that.
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August 9th, 2007, 13:01
have always loved PS:T It always has help a place in my heart, I never played another game like it. I've said this before when blake Isle was still round and I will say it again, I want a sequel ever since seeing the blood war cut seen and the credits, I know the nameless one is dead, he's in hell and so on, but in the world of planscape it would not be impossible for him to come back, the game if it was ever made would have to start where it left off heak that would give an opening for a combat tutorial or what ever. from there I guess the story of it would likely involve how the hell is he going to get out of hell, battle or perhaps redemption. It would be weird though playing as an mortal though would need to save game a lot. There could be all kinds of reasons as to how he gets out of hell and all kinds of ways to make a new journey for him. I would love to though out ideas but its much to late right now but I was thinking of one part in the game could have to do with one side starting to win in the blood war and if that happened the other planes are going to be in trouble, nameless one could become an unlikely hero and not just an a dude who had many deaths and incarnations and trouble because of the 1st bastard.
Planscape: redemption maybe that could be a nice title. Eh I know this will never happen but I had to say it. I don't care how they manage it so long as the nameless one is there, some of the lose ends get tied (yes there are some questions that didn't get proper answers) and at least Mort and anna are in the game. every thing else I don't care, well I do but Im sure if the game ever was made the makers would give another great story. Even With TNO's situation there's got to be some way to make him come back for PS:T2 and to make it a good game.
Last edited by Wargo; August 10th, 2007 at 11:59.
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August 9th, 2007, 23:37
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
Did anybody find evidence that there really is consumer demand for innovative games?
I do buy what appears to me as unique and innovative - as long as I like it.

But the mass of people - and that's one of the moost disturbing things, seemingly DOESN'T want to buy innovative games !

At least it seems to be the case here, where I live. I don't know about other countries.

Take Paraworld, for example. A great game, imho, but no-one bought it, despite the hype in several gaming magazines !

Instead, for example years ago people bought a simple game which became famous because everybody knew and bought it at one point : The "Moorhuhn" game.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorhuhn_(Computerspiel)
(Sorry, there is no English-language article on this type of game.)
Moorhuhn in English : http://www.moorhuhn.com/

(And yes, I know that there are several years between Paraworld and the original Moorhuhn - the latter obne serves as an example for simple, yet very, very well selling games to me.)

The "Moorhuhn" games are sold even today, in variations.

The bottom line is that often a fairly simple game is preferred over innovative games.
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; August 9th, 2007 at 23:48.
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August 11th, 2007, 20:31
Hi! I would have a question to Mr. Avallone or to Brother None or to anybody who could answer it. Is there a way to get the vision statements to the planned sequels? I'd be very interested in it. My other question: Will be made a Fallout Bible like encylopedia to Ps:T? Thanks for you help!
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August 13th, 2007, 21:19
Originally Posted by Tiadar View Post
Hi! I would have a question to Mr. Avallone or to Brother None or to anybody who could answer it. Is there a way to get the vision statements to the planned sequels? I'd be very interested in it. My other question: Will be made a Fallout Bible like encylopedia to Ps:T? Thanks for you help!
Tiadar (tiadar@freemail.hu)
PS:T bible? No chance.

Vision statements for sequels…well, to hear MCA, they were pretty sketchy and he might not be interesting in releasing them. I might ask him at some point.
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August 14th, 2007, 11:48
Only now I had the time to read this, wow, fascinating piece, congrats guys!
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August 25th, 2007, 03:07
Good interview guys. I owe all of you a Jack and Coke or drink of your choice. Too many good things to say.

I just watched The Replacement Killers again and the music in the movie made me search for this forum.

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August 28th, 2007, 03:35
I loved PST but probably the reasons I loved it are the same reasons it can never happen again. I hold out hope for some user-made module (e.g. in NWN) to follow in its mold.

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September 3rd, 2007, 16:30
Fascinating read, thanks!

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