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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Off-Topic » Older games = harder games ?

Default Older games = harder games ?

July 26th, 2007, 20:54
Should I ask for staying on topic or not ?
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July 26th, 2007, 21:11
No, let's just have a contest to see which thread can support the most topics.

I like all the discussion, personally.

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July 26th, 2007, 21:53
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
I agree it is a major factor, but in which regards? Maybe if Oblivion and Gothic 3 had the same marketing clout the would have seen similar sales, but would Spiderweb having the same marketing clout translate similar sales? Maybe people would be more aware of it, maybe a bunch of new people would try the demo, but would that translate into sales?

What spiderweb belongs in is a niche market, niche markets are usually filled with educated consumers and information seekers. Ads do not work on consumers in a niche market in relation to that market. Its like during an election in the us. You have the swing-voters which would be the consumer impacted by advertsiment. Are thes swing voters going to vote for the person running on the libertarian ticket, like bendarick? No. The will vote for a D or R.

Or another example would be lets say my daughter wants a pet, so I become a member of the petr buying market. Maybe if I went to a pet store and they had a horse I walk over and look at it, pet it, admore it, but I sure as hell ain't buying it. I'll buy her a gerbal or a mouse or something small and will die soon and won't cost a lot of money. Maybe, just maybe, if she is persuasive enough I'd buy her one of those filthy dog things, if it is small enough and doesn't have hair on it, and its old and will die soon. Cat? No. Not unless that will be dinner next week and our goal is to fatten it up until we eat it. Horse? Never. Its a niche product, and no amount of advertisemnt or anything will get me to buy a horse, even though I'm in the pet-buying market.

A lot of money is spent on advertsiment, and that money is spent to make you buy my widget 101 over that guy's widget 101, but if your in the market for dohickey 305's, my ads are wasted on you.
You're right for these games of course. I just thought you were saying advertisement and marketing didn't impact consumers.

However, ads do bring two other important things to consumers.
1) Awareness, as you said more people would know about the product. Doesn't mean more people will buy it, but let's say 10 people try-out the product and 1 likes it then it already helps towards making a product.

Ads don't only make people aware of their products they do bring in the element of desire which is the second thing ads do.
2) Desire: By showing ads people won't rush to the store to buy it, but let's say I have a five year old refrigerator and it's still working alright, but on tv I see an ad for a new refrigerator, it has a lot of new options, is bigger than my refrigerator has multiple places to store different kinds of food and drinks; it also has a water 'dispenser' (I don't know how it's called), it can also make ice cubes. So now you think (the consumer) : 'Oh, that's a nice refrigerator, If mine breaks I might buy that one!' (Awareness)

The next day your best friend tells you he bought a new refrigerator and he asks you to help hook it up and throw the old one away. You see it's the one you saw on TV and he shows you the refrigerator and it's even better than what you saw on the ad. You think : 'Wow, nice, never thought it'd be that large and there's even three temp adjusters…'

Then you talk to your wife and she says she'd like to refurbish the kitchen, you of course say it would cost to much and you don't have the time.

Then you read the papers and read an article about old refrigerators being bad for the health as they may not work properly as they may be a degree below what they're supposed to be which can spoil food.
At the same time your wife asks you again to refurbish the kitchen and then your mind snaps. You go and buy the refrigerator

I just noticed I wrote a very long article here. Sorry. I had a longer story in my head, but the post is too long as it is. Please don't start talking about refrigerators now , this is about games… Older games sometimes are harder games
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July 28th, 2007, 23:46
As a sidenote, I just noticed how much easiert it is to play EOB2, if you have a Cleric in your group !

I believe that this was my mistake when playing EOB1 … So, how hard a game might appear to someone is also depending on the play style and the choices you made …
(But of course that's an "open secret" … )
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July 29th, 2007, 02:24
I just replayed Civ 2, which was hard for me when I got it (could be because I didn't read the manual), but it seems very easy now. I even managed to send my ship to Alpha Centauri more than 50 years ahead of the time limit. It's on easy, but I used to die on easy after 20 turns sometimes, so I guess that's an improvement

This does add to the argument that experience in gaming makes older games seem harder and newer seem easier.
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July 29th, 2007, 19:13
From my recent experiences playing a few strategy demos, I'd say in this genre it's a mixed bag. The demo for Anno1701 was very easy(but of course the full game may be harder) compared to the older city builders, but the demo for Dominions is about the same level of difficulty as the older strat titles I remember like MOO2 and Lords of Magic. It looks like it could get even harder with the full version.

Maybe strategy players enjoy the masochism!

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August 23rd, 2007, 17:59
I saw this article at Gamasutra

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur…ntials_20_.php

All the games are definitely older, they are mostly Arcade and NES games, and he gives a theory as to why things have changed.

At the top is Defender. I remember that was a game that was definitely played by the older teenager just about ready to graduate high school. Of course it was also the first game I remember the US military used for training.

Only one RPG is listed there: Bard's Tale 2. Wizardy and Ultima were also mentioned but only as an example like number 20 Lode Runner that there were versions made in Japan only.

Lode Runner was a great strategy game but I don't remember it being too hard.

Wizardry IV on the other hand should have been mentioned IMO if he was aware of BT2.

Other games I can think of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy and Savage Island or even Riven.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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September 3rd, 2007, 13:26
Video games hardly need to increase its market any further. There are so many games now its insane.
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September 4th, 2007, 11:16
After som 20 years of computer games I almost always try to play all games on hard because othervice they are too easy. The only "hard" games I can think of are ww2ol (FPS mmog) and Galactic Civilizations 2. First one has human opponents and second one has a very tough (noncheating!) AI.

I just ordered "Dragon Quest: The Journey of the Cursed King (PS2)" and they say that is hard too. Not sure though since i havent played it yet.
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September 4th, 2007, 13:31
I loved Defender myself and a lot of the old coin ops. I just got Geometry Wars from steam and I like that aswell. I have always been interested in games though from a very young age.

I was very young in the early days of the arcades and it was certainly an exciting time for games in general.
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September 4th, 2007, 14:26
The whole thing of difficulty has to do with risk and reward. A game like Sinistar was worth pumping quarters / tokens into because you could improve your skills and do better each time - the game didn't cheat it was just really hard. So many modern games do 'difficulty through cheating' - cheater AI, more HP for monsters, less ammo, etc.

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September 4th, 2007, 15:47
Well, nothing can instantly kill you with level scaling now can it.

It's not all bad in game design but the old enthusiasts are being forgotten somewhat.
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