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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » Should there be love and marriage for all people (over legal age)?

Default Should there be love and marriage for all people (over legal age)?

September 6th, 2007, 17:37
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
Hmm. "Restrict people's freedom" to "form contracts". Restricting your freedom is the whole point with a contract.
Are you being intentionally obtuse, or genuinely stupid?

You sign certain agreements which you cannot break as long as the contract is valid, and there are agreements that are automaticly invalid. For example, you are not allowed to write a contract that agree that someone else own you.
Which has exactly what to do with my question?

Having said that, the issue I have with a marriage contract is not the contract in itself. Anyone can make a contract. The issue I have with a marriage contract is the things that the government need to pay if you break it. This is different depending on which country you live in but over here it offers things like free councelling and help with sorting things out after a divorce. I think that marriage/divorce is too simple for so much support afterwards.
In that case, don't you think you should be arguing against the state's responsibility to provide free counseling etc. rather than arguing against marriage?
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September 6th, 2007, 17:45
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
OK, perhaps you need to go back to Chemistry … yes there are hormones related to attractionm and the one you cite occurs during orgasm and supposedly might be related to relationships and trust. But saying "When you fall in love your body releases oxytocine" is … um … just wrong. Falling in love, feeling lust and having sex are all different things.
Im not a chemist, I just read an article that spoke about the relationship between oxytocin and the human behavior during the first weeks/months into a new relationship. Wether we can agree to oxytocin or not we can at least agree that the first weeks within a new relationship is a strong and very positive rush that by relatives/friends might be perceived as odd, irrational and sometimes a bit too self-sacrificing.
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September 6th, 2007, 17:46
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Are you being intentionally obtuse, or genuinely stupid?
If you disagree, disagree and maybe even tell me why you disagree, but there's no need to be rude.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Which has exactly what to do with my question?
I simply replied to your comment stating that there are regulations on what sort of contracts you are allowed to write but not regulating contracts is not the same as reducing freedoms.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
In that case, don't you think you should be arguing against the state's responsibility to provide free counseling etc. rather than arguing against marriage?
What's the point with state recognizing a marriage if there's nothing that comes from the contract? We have many things in our lives that we consider important and we write contracts about many things, I do not see why marriage is so different that it needs unique regulations.
Last edited by JemyM; September 6th, 2007 at 18:16.
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September 6th, 2007, 18:26
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
If you disagree, disagree and maybe even tell me why you disagree, but there's no need to be rude.
You're the one who's being rude, if you're intentionally misunderstanding what I say, as I think you were — the next paragraphs in your posting made it fairly clear that you understood perfectly well what I meant by "restricting the freedom to make contracts."

I simply replied to your comment stating that there are regulations on what sort of contracts you are allowed to write but not regulating contracts is not the same as reducing freedoms.
No, JemyM, that's not it. Any restriction to freedom is a restriction to freedom. Some of these restrictions may be defensible, but they're still restrictions. For example, the principle that one human being may not own another human being may be agreed to supersede the principle that consenting adults are free to enter into contracts.

What's the point with state recognizing a marriage if there's nothing that comes from the contract? We have many things in our lives that we consider important and we write contracts about many things, I do not see why marriage is so different that it needs unique regulations.
It doesn't need "unique" regulations any more than real estate transactions need "unique" regulations. However, just like real estate transactions, it does need *specific* regulations, since the domain of concepts in which it deals is specific: namely, that of inheritance, responsibility for children, and responsibility for everyone involved. Or do you disagree?
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September 6th, 2007, 18:32
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
It doesn't need "unique" regulations any more than real estate transactions need "unique" regulations. However, just like real estate transactions, it does need *specific* regulations, since the domain of concepts in which it deals is specific: namely, that of inheritance, responsibility for children, and responsibility for everyone involved. Or do you disagree?
I think that right up until the moment of conception, marriage should be as simple to handle contractually as a business partnership … after that it is the most complex thing in the world …

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September 6th, 2007, 19:02
Actually, I have a fever so if I am that delerius I will stop posting until im better.
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September 6th, 2007, 19:32
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I think that right up until the moment of conception, marriage should be as simple to handle contractually as a business partnership … after that it is the most complex thing in the world …
Psychologically, certainly. Contractually, not really.
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September 7th, 2007, 02:12
Jemy, one question leaps to mind, but please don't feel you have to answer it. What is YOUR relationship position? Are you in one, have you had a bad experience? I'm not prying, it's just that most of us involved in this excellent discussion are married or in a solid relationship and that might make a difference to ours, vs your perceptions!!

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September 7th, 2007, 05:44
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Jemy, one question leaps to mind, but please don't feel you have to answer it. What is YOUR relationship position? Are you in one, have you had a bad experience? I'm not prying, it's just that most of us involved in this excellent discussion are married or in a solid relationship and that might make a difference to ours, vs your perceptions!!
Im 29 now. I have lived with my girlfriend for five years and we plan to get married once both lost some weight. The plan is to visit Japan and marry on the Swedish ambassady, maybe later arranging some kind of dinner with friends/family.

My point of view is mostly an effect of my culture.
The marriage rate rate in Sweden is really low.

Like many swedes I consider marriage to be a huge step in life, one not taken lightly. It's culturally unliked to getting married at a young age and at least you are supposed to finish school (~22-25) and get a job before you get married. People who marry sooner than that are not taken too seriously.
Most live together for many years before they marry (at least 3-5 years). 30 years of age represent the point in life in which you should be married no matter what.
Marriage is also associated with a costly ceremony which young people in Sweden cannot afford, perhaps an effect of a messed up labor market meaning that it's very difficult for young people to get a job especially if they do not have higher education.
Some do not wish to live together at all and they do not marry either. Single mothers or people who live apart is not uncommon.

Sweden have had legal unions between homosexuals for many years which offers the same advantages as marriage. Marriage between homosexuals is "just a matter of time" and if there was a vote today it would probably pass. The largest church (representing the majority of all christians) is actually in favor of homosexual weddings but allow priests to opt out if they do not wish to do it.
Removing marriage from swedish law entirely was also in discussion a few years ago, the idea was to replace it with some kind of universal recognition for people living together. The party standing behind it was dissolved though and maybe it was not taken too seriously. We already have laws that support people who live together, which includes support for dividing the household if breaking up. At least one of the smaller parties are also positive to polygami.
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September 7th, 2007, 18:56
Should love, whether same sex or opposite sex be recognised? Whether you want to call it marriage, union, bonding ceremony or anthing else, should a union between people of the same sex be recognised and the same legal standing given to same sex unions and opposite sex unions?
I see no problem here. It is vital to recognize all the long term relationships. All people are said to be equal and have the right to pursue happiness and love. In addition a married couple will earn certain govermental benefits. Ethically and financially thinking all the long term relationship must be acknowledged, otherwise it sets different people in unequal position.

If the main argument for marriage to only be between a man and woman so they can bear offspring, does that mean people with no intention to have children should not be able to marry?
Marriage and kids.some couples don't want kids and some can't have kids. this is not a good argument if you ask me. Adoption is a whole other matter, not marriage related.

If marriage is a legal right for opposite sex couples, should there be restrictions? For example, if someone is in jail for rape/murder, should they be able to marry during the term of their imprisionment? Should they have to wait until they get out of jail to enjoy marriage as they have been put in jail for ruining someone elses life?
I don't understand in the first place why would anyone get married while in jail.
sorry i don't really know. I quess it is a question how much is it right to limit one's freedom.

Should there be a waiting period (eg. have to be dating for a certain period, or living together for a certain period) to be able to marry?
No, If someone met a girl in his dreams and wanted to get married in Las vegas asap. Who is anyone to judge that decision? Or if me and my gf are living together and not getting married soon. Such waiting perioid proves nothing nor will predict anything. Imo its good to get to know other person better and live together under the same roof and share the same bed before jumping on the altar. Marriage is not a step to be taken lightly. Nonetheless unions fail. Its human emotions at the end. Though chances are better if both of you know eachother's ins and out..just having the knowledge that don't hate his/her mug at the morning is a remarkable thing

I hope other people have questions (or answers) about love and marriage.
Obviously the responses could centre around the church, religion, ethics, personal beliefs, cultural beliefs and other things that people feel very strongly about, so please be considerate of other people's opinions and be nice when posting.
Marriage is a contract of two people who promise to love eachother. I don't see it sacred or anything. You only need to look at the divorce rates to figure that out. And loving someone and getting married with someone is not the same thing. Can love exist outside marrige? yes. Can marrige exist without love? yes. Weddings are beautifull and I always wish happiness for the groom and bride, but its naive and false to think that priest's amen/ registeration in the city office etc would make your relationship any better. It does not. I'm not saying marriage wouldn't mean anythin to me, only that people have false expectations.
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September 7th, 2007, 18:59
Didn't know Belgium had the highest rate of divorces. I must really be living in a community where people don't get divorced as much…
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