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September 28th, 2007, 11:03
Exactly. But a lot of people will argue that it tries what it tries to be because the general public wants or needs their games "dumbed down" today. However, what it does NOT try to be is a Baldur's Gate 2 for the masses.
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September 28th, 2007, 13:57
I dont think baldurs gate 2 would even be possible for consoles. The gamepad is simply too handicapping for that purpose. Its like trying to browse internet through cellphone - cellphones need dumped down version of web-pages.

Thats not to say that gamepad is not good for games. There are many games that it shines on. Also sitting on sofa with gamepad is somthing you can never do with keyboard and mouse. Its just that the span of game-categories is limited unlike with pc-controllers.
Last edited by zakhal; September 28th, 2007 at 18:46.
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September 28th, 2007, 16:35
I don't want to play grammar police (as that always backfires) but I find it amusing how often in this thread, and in general in these discussions on the internet, the very words "dumbed down" or "dumbing down" are misspelled.
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September 28th, 2007, 17:44
I don't think the gamepad-oriented span of games is limited compared to PC controls. I mean, some things work better on PC, and some things work better with a gamepad… but I feel that everything is possible on both. In fact, for some games on PC, I had my gamepad connected to my PC emulating my mouse. It was more difficult to control some things, but it enabled me to sit back comfortably without a keyboard or flat surface. I mean, you can control a mouse cursor with a gamepad… and in a game like Baldur's Gate where you can pause time, dexterity and speed aren't going to matter that much.
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September 28th, 2007, 18:02
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
I don't want to play grammar police (as that always backfires) but I find it amusing how often in this thread, and in general in these discussions on the internet, the very words "dumbed down" or "dumbing down" are misspelled.
That was the dummest dum post on this whole dhum subject on this whole dumhb forum.

u r teh dummbie!!!1one

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September 28th, 2007, 18:34
Originally Posted by Saber-Scorpion View Post
SW: X-wing series -> Rogue Squadron series
Actually, Rogue Squadron DID appear on the PC.

I've played almost every X-Wing-related game (except console games), and I can say that Rogue Squadron (the first game) played in part differently than X-Wing.

In my opinion, one can rather safely say that this game has been (excuse me) "dumbed down" ( ) , because it lacks some kind of "depth" … but on the other hand it has features no PC game of all X-Wing related games ever had: combat on planets surface. The only game that has this is Star Wars Starfighter (of which the PC version is largely ignored by LucasArts as it had never appeared and the XBOX version got some extras - so in this case the exact opposite of "dumbing down" actually happened !) and the both "Rebel Assault" games.

Rogue Squadron (I'm still speaking of the first game) is very difficult in some areas. Reaching gold status is nearly impossible in some missions.

TIE Fighter, as the opposite example, has some unrivalled depth, some prefer it even to X-Wing Alliance, which also has great depth.

As a general rule, I'd tend to say that console games seem to have a rather reduced story, which the PC versions rather seem to have.

Now, the question is: Is this a marketing decision ? A design decision ? A cost-reducing decision ?

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September 28th, 2007, 18:36
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
I don't think the gamepad-oriented span of games is limited compared to PC controls. I mean, some things work better on PC, and some things work better with a gamepad… but I feel that everything is possible on both.
Well as examples I doubt well ever see real simulators(not arcade shooters with outside views), RTS or grand strategy games in consoles. Basicly all games with joystick/lots of controls/extended mouse UI are excluded.

As for pc it has gamepads (and console emulators even) so there are no limitations. Even those console games that are not released for pc can be played through emulator sooner or later.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
er hand it has features no PC game of all X-Wing related games ever had: combat on planets surface.
There are "surface" missions in xwing. But if talking about real planets then wing commander 3 had it for sure.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
I don't want to play grammar police (as that always backfires) but I find it amusing how often in this thread, and in general in these discussions on the internet, the very words "dumbed down" or "dumbing down" are misspelled.
I did it on purpose. I like to amuse people. Its how I roll. B)
Last edited by zakhal; September 28th, 2007 at 19:44.
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September 28th, 2007, 18:38
I know relatively few games for the PC which are designed to be controlled entirely with gamepads.

Rayman, perhaps.

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September 28th, 2007, 18:48
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I know relatively few games for the PC which are designed to be controlled entirely with gamepads.

Rayman, perhaps.
All "Games for windows" have gamepad support as default.
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September 28th, 2007, 18:56
My nephew played Rogue Squadron on his console and couldn't believe the difference when he tried X-Wing Alliance on my PC. I had a force-feedback joystick hooked up with all nine buttons preset the way I like it. That plus the outstanding audio blasting out from my office stereo system made it pretty sweet.
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September 28th, 2007, 20:08
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
I did it on purpose. I like to amuse people. Its how I roll. B)
I fully understand. Any spelling mistake syou may find in my posts are on purpose too
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September 28th, 2007, 20:15
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
I fully understand. Any spelling mistake syou may find in my posts are on purpose too
Copy-cat!!
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September 29th, 2007, 00:22
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
All "Games for windows" have gamepad support as default.
Okay, I was rather looking into the past instead into the future.

Personally, I'd leave that label "games for windows" alone, if I was producing a game. I don't think I'd need it.

Actually, it becomes kind of annoying for me right now. What about "games for Linux" or "games for MacIntosh" ?

Nonsense.


Edit: If I don't like a game at all, I'm sure it will be a "game for windows".
When I throw it out of my window, that is.

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September 29th, 2007, 01:26
Part of the problem of this article is the very thing its critical of - in console vs PC it complains of generalizing all console sales for games and then it makes its own conjectures of PC sales based on that.

I think it might be worthwhile to compare a few games to their console versions. Most games ported to PC or vice versa are only done to one console.

We've recently had sales figures on Bioshock and Oblivion. Does anyone have those handy?

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September 29th, 2007, 01:30
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Okay, I was rather looking into the past instead into the future.
Past? All sports games or games suited for gamepad have the support. I.E metric ton of hockey/football games for over a period of decade now.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Edit: If I don't like a game at all, I'm sure it will be a "game for windows".
When I throw it out of my window, that is.
Ok huh.
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September 29th, 2007, 01:34
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
We've recently had sales figures on Bioshock and Oblivion. Does anyone have those handy?
Newest Madden (900k?) on xbox360 sold like 10x bioshock (180k?). H3 (1000k?) too i think. Just interesting tidbit. I saw the list somwhere just few days ago…
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September 29th, 2007, 02:46
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Newest Madden (900k?) on xbox360 sold like 10x bioshock (180k?). H3 (1000k?) too i think. Just interesting tidbit. I saw the list somwhere just few days ago…
Those numbers (at least as far as Bioshock is concerned) sound a bit off. Bioshock has been and continues to be a smashing success for 2K. GameDaily is usually a pretty reliable source and they quote 490K for Bioshock on the X360 in August alone (based on -once again usually reliable- NPD stats). The game was released on August 23, wasn't it? So that's 490K in just a little over a week. That's pretty damned impressive. Also, I think it's only natural that it isn't such a huge success as Madden which is based on the most popular US sport. That's bordering on an apple vs oranges comparison to compare Bioshock to Madden.
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September 29th, 2007, 02:52
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
No problem. The numbers I read were most likely not long after bioshock launched so it hadnt reached its full sales peak yet. As for Madden I was supriced to see its numbers. It still dwarfs bioshock which (!) is a rare hit in games industry. I have never heard of maddens success (I only remember it from review back 15 years ago - its the american handball game). Who knows there might be other gen pop games that dwarf rare bestseller games. H3 is surely one.
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September 29th, 2007, 06:17
What's needed is a mod for Bio featuring either Madden, or some current NFL players!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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September 29th, 2007, 23:40
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Past? All sports games or games suited for gamepad have the support. I.E metric ton of hockey/football games for over a period of decade now.
Okay, I must've been blind on that eye, because I've never played any sports games, apart from "Star Wars Racer", maybe.

Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
What's needed is a mod for Bio featuring either Madden, or some current NFL players!!
LOL !

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