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Default Vanguard - Second Look @ Eurogamer

December 12th, 2007, 05:34
Eurogamer has kicked up a second look at Vanguard, moving their original release score of 6/10 to 7/10 after nine months of improvements:
So far, so good - and nine months of improvements have definitely polished and fixed the three core spheres of the game to a point where they can actually be enjoyed. Other additions, too, are welcome. Vanguard has adopted World of Warcraft's concept of rested XP, which grants you bonus XP for a time after you've spent a while either logged out or in a settlement, and a new system called Brotherhoods allows you to link up with friends around a similar level and share XP from your activities - even when one of you isn't online. It's a fantastic way of making sure that friends who can't always play together stay around the same level, rather than outpacing one another.
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December 12th, 2007, 05:34
Score is still too low, innovation alone should get Vanguard at least 8/10, while the bugs mostly equal out with all the positives, such as the combat which doesn't get boring or repetitive, huge huge game to explore and it's often quite beautiful, not sure there is an game engine that has better looking skies, than Unreal.

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December 12th, 2007, 21:16
A fair review. 7/10 is still the max VG should get. It is SO little content and things to do compared to other MMOs and compared to the SIZE! It feel so barren and empty. As I rerolled recently in Kojan, still all does stood still like frozen, all staring unanimated in the same direction. The number of quests is PAINFULLY low, compared to giants like EQ2, WOW or LOTRO, which means grind until your arm breaks.

This game is, given the current speed of change, two years away from a state where its a good game. It is good that Eurogamer keeps its high standarts of reviewing, where enough other mags are blindly hyping every new game.
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December 12th, 2007, 23:37
It feel so barren and empty. As I rerolled recently in Kojan
Kojan has been the least deeloped area, no doubt though I don't think many people use it as a questing place at least while I was there obviously the most developed areas with populations are Thestra and Qalia.

still all does stood still like frozen, all staring unanimated in the same direction
I have no idea what this means?

No doubt they have more to do to improve, but could you comment on how you would score it for what exist, instead of whats missing? Meaning in the context of how the correct features work and compare to other mmogs.
For example do the quest that exist show any improvement over other mmogs or do you find them no different?
I take it that you are not into exploring, so since the emptyness bothers you, do the populated areas seem well done?
If you took all the quest content currently available and put it on one content (say everything was on Qulia) would you still consider it, "So little content and things to do"?

Thanks.

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December 13th, 2007, 04:09
I feel I have to come to Elikal's rescue.

It feel so barren and empty. As I rerolled recently in Kojan
Kojan has been the least deeloped area, no doubt though I don't think many people use it as a questing place at least while I was there obviously the most developed areas with populations are Thestra and Qalia.
You quote him and then say "Yeah Kojan is empty because everyone is in Qalia and Thestra" as if he is an idiot for being in Kojan where nobody is.

still all does stood still like frozen, all staring unanimated in the same direction
I have no idea what this means?
The NPCs have no animations and pathing.

No doubt they have more to do to improve, but could you comment on how you would score it for what exist, instead of whats missing? Meaning in the context of how the correct features work and compare to other mmogs
.
He did. He said;
The number of quests is PAINFULLY low, compared to giants like EQ2, WOW or LOTRO, which means grind until your arm breaks.
And he said;
It is SO little content and things to do compared to other MMOs and compared to the SIZE!
If you took all the quest content currently available and put it on one content (say everything was on Qulia) would you still consider it, "So little content and things to do"?
So, we should comment on a completely different game than the game itself?
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December 13th, 2007, 08:33
Originally Posted by Reyla
You quote him and then say "Yeah Kojan is empty because everyone is in Qalia and Thestra" as if he is an idiot for being in Kojan where nobody is.
You can't be serious? You think I am treating him (I am gonna use a different word since if I use that word repeatedly to reemphasize your point, it would be rude of me, since I in no way implied what you said) poorly, damn man, I sure hope you can point to something specific.
no doubt though I don't think many people use it as a questing place at least
Wow, how rude of me to think, then suggest from my experience it's not usually very populated area. I guess the fact that I didn't have time to give a full blown dissection, like the fact that it's the smallest continent (gorgeously designed) or that prices are sky high there since the low pop hardly anyone has items up for sale, leaving the exploiters free rein, which there are many. Hell in Thestra a guy was trying to get me to help him jack up prices on lumber because (I saw it as a massively profitable and spent half my time harvesting so I could afford all the nice gear) I was selling so much and he was trying to control the markets.
Hell I don't maybe I was considering WANNING him, nah!
The NPCs have no animations and pathing.
Thanks.
So, we should comment on a completely different game than the game itself?
Only if you want to, though it's certainly not what I asked and not one of the things he mentioned were about what I asked him to comment on. He clearly based most of his comments on missing or not activated functions.

I know your smart enough to comprehend, so it must be I wasn't clear enough for you or you seem to be tring intentionally ignore, I wanted his opinion on the quality of things that ARE there. NOT on what's was missing or not working yet. Hell I even listed things like the quality of quest, I mention combat earlier and Clearly asked how he would compare the working functions to other mmogs.

If your having a house built and it's only half completed, do you only notice the and talk about the missing half?

Hell, no one's making him answer and the idea that you drum up this crap about treating him poorly, is total bullshit. I rarely get to talk to anyone who's played it, since imo it was wrongly paned by the media as I have said numerous times. Why? They were a small independent mmog developer with obvious talent and vision, who were screwed over by (wait for Dhruin! ) m$.

Moxie with his early impressions piece here at the Watch, was initially who got me interested in Vanguard for the most part and even gave me his 10 day free play card and I had a blast. Sure it was buggy and unfinished but who the hell didn't know that? It's not like the media had rubbed everyones face in it.

So I have no idea what your using as a basis for your assessments about my intentions it's mind boggling, so I really hope you have something to back this crap up with.
Additionally I may have remember some things wrong, it's been 3 or so months since I have played and if you Reyla and elikal are some mmog gaming gods or something, you have my apologizes for not knowing as I am only moderately involved with them.
As far as I have seen the only posting forum member whom still plays Vanguard is Rendelius, so if you are elikal have been in there I had no clue. Personally I played on the main EU server, which I can't recall the name atm, but was the largest before the merger and I was gone by then.

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December 13th, 2007, 14:54
The funny thing is, I feel myself always misinterpreted. Fanbois tell me I hate VG, those who hate VG tell me I am a fan. I try to stand in the middle ground, cause I think thats what VG deserves.

I often hear from fans, if only the lag and tech probs could be helped VG would rock, and I say no it wouldnt. There are FAR more issues, like the lack of quests and the sense of "long ways before the fun starts" this game is plagued with. Dont ask me to go into detail, I wrote many, long texts about this ages ago, and either you see it now or you dont. VG needs MUCH more work to be a really good game. I wish it will be, because the fundamentals are good.
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December 13th, 2007, 15:29
Not necessarily in reference to the heated debate above, but I finally purchased and played the game for a couple of months starting in Sept. I was pleasantly surprises and enjoyed the game quite a bit, particuarly the interesting take on combat and the unique mechanic associated with each class. I thoroughly enjoyed the lvl 1-20 areas and trying out different classes.

But after this point, I began to view the game as a chore with too infrequent rewards. After 20, I did feel there was a lack of content and while there may indeed be a good number of quests and places to go, the vast distance and difficulty finding these things/knowing where to go/actually gettting there made the content feel much less sparse than it needs to be. Other than in populated areas, this also resulted in seeing very few other players, enhancing the sense of emptiness. A good number of the quests I found in a lot of areas where the bland repeatable bulletin board type quests,

However, the aspect that led me to cancel the account just recently, is the fact that playing felt like a chore with too infrequent rewards. The difficulty and time involved in just finding/getting to/knowhing where content was exacerbated by the still relatively low lvl of exp. gain post 20 and the distinct lack of character customization options.

As far as the travel and exp gain goes, I know this game has become the province of the militant "hardcore" (or as I prefer to think of it, masochistic) faction of mmorpgs, I have a trying job and 2 young kids and I simply cant dedicate that much time to a game in a single sitting without some appreciable sense of progress. It's fine if Vanguard chooses to be this type of game for this audience if its viable for them, its just not likely something someone like myself can play. Once again, that's fine, I have other options,

With respect to the lack of character customization, only two classes AFAIK (shaman and monk) really have any customization choices (namely choosing a slightly different subclass path). Such customization choices really make one feel attached to the character and offer an alternate sense of progression and reward in addition to exp gain. In fact, before cancelling my account, I restarted playing EQII whose customization/AA choices are probably the best currently out there. That being said, EQII has been around a long time and the content and character customization have grown exponentially since launch.

Despite all this, I still feel Vanguard is a good game with a lot of potential. There is nothing here that can't be fixed through improved travel methods, ingame direction to content/linked quests, addition of new content, etc. Just like EQII, they can also add enhanced customization options over time that increase attachment/reward and ehance replayability. I would also hope that as I believe was in a recent producer's letter that they would look at lessening the exp curve and travel burden which would make it better for players like me (while I'm sure pissing off the militant hardcore gamers.)

Undoubtedly this game has great features and potential, its just feels a bit like a sketch than a finished piece however. Vanguard just needs to choose the type of game that they want to be and continue working in that direction. I just hope that they have the resources to get there and the direction they move is suitable to my style of gaming. But if not, so be it. Hope somebody enjoys it.

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December 13th, 2007, 18:41
Well said, dagoo77. That mirrors very much my feelings and experiences.
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December 14th, 2007, 01:04
Originally Posted by elikal
I try to stand in the middle ground, cause I think thats what VG deserves
I would have to agree there are more than the tech and lag issue too. Before the merger there were more teleporter spots and the devs wrongly imo closed them in an attempt to force their more envisioned game of travel mostly by boats and animal travel. This would be great IF they had the population to support this idea, they don't, even after there theorizing the merger would provide enough people to find groups easily.

I wrote many, long texts about this ages ago, and either you see it now or you dont
Never saw them and if I understand this, guess I won't.

Originally Posted by dagoo77
Not necessarily in reference to the heated debate above,
Nice to have opinions about the game, thanks. If some people are offended by being asked to elaborate well then, I guess that's too bad.
You have some really good points and I think you hit on the biggest problem, elikal mentions and I have as well the extraordinary difficulty in being able as a person with limited playtime to find a group, accomplish goals and receive rewards, that keep you coming back.
I actually thought many of the quest rewards were pretty nice gear, even those repeatable bulletin board quest to kill 10 of something. It was sad and funny how people didn't understand that you kept the waver for completing them till you got 10, then turned them in for a very very nice reward as a Large Chest next to the quest turn in.
I remember being able to start those around 10th level and I was getting 15th to 20th level gear, woot! Save me tons of gold I didn't have. It was sad because you would return to get your Large Chest and see someone had turned them in and the Chest was glowing, they didn't even know they had killer loot and they were the only ones whom could open it.

At 20th level I guess I got lucky, as I always asked questions and found out about the Heritage style quest lines for even sweeter gear and the Unicorn, both of those will carry you about to level 35, personally I started hitting the wall around 40 and the quests really started turning to crap then. Where in the complete leveling from 1 to 40 you got xp for killing and turning in quest both, now at 40 on xp for killing and NOTHING for quest, it totally sucked.

And another good point about the customization of Avatars, everyone hated this how could it be so difficult to have more than 4 faces, hairstyles and clothes.

Certainly EQ2 has a very solid system and I really like the medium filled servers, don't think I could ever handle the wow million plus on ever server.

Yeah I really have high hopes for VG, hope it doesn't take the 2 years, elikal suggest. It's to bad they killed the travel system and the devs also actually thought the flying creatures (which are DAMN COOL) would help, not thinking that a level 10 or depending on how well you know where to get and how to make good money even a 20th level toon has difficulty coming up with 70s per ride, duh!

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Last edited by Acleacius; December 14th, 2007 at 05:57.
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