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RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » NWN 2 » Dueling Morningstars.

Default Dueling Morningstars.

November 7th, 2006, 04:26
Why does the NWN seires prevent dueling Morningstars [medium weapon]?

This seems ridiculous and really bother me everytime I play as its my perfered weapon.
Is there some obscure rule [new or old?] or is it somehow a bug that managed to showup in both games?


Thanks.
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November 7th, 2006, 04:43
You cannot use morningstars or flails in your offhand since the 3.0 ruleset and greater.

I believe it is based on the fact that these weapons have a bonus to the disarm skill that would be too overpowered if you use 2 of them at the same time.
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November 7th, 2006, 08:49
Actually, dual-wielding is what's ridiculous, if we're looking at things from the POV of realism. Two very light martial arts style weapons, basically extensions of your fists, are certainly workable, and a short sword plus dagger combo is at least conceivable even if not very effective. But dual-wielding two long swords is just plain silly.

Fighting with a medium-sized weapon like a sword, even a short sword, is all about putting the force of your body behind the weapon and then putting the point of contact where it hurts most. Having two won't give you "extra attacks," it'll just decrease both the force and the precision of your strikes.
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November 7th, 2006, 09:42
I have seen Martial Artist using two Katanas, there are such a thing as balanced for duelwielding, which the penatlies we get are used to simulate the difficulty.
This is also the same as any other aspect of the game, that with great study and practice things are possible, well with in reason as casting a fireball in RL is tough too, but not impossible.
If the only reason you cant duel a morning star is it has an extra chance to disarm, then they could use a penalty, so it nonsence excluding it [the rules themselves].
Obviously they could easily do it, the whole game is based on balances, so its just a copout for ruleset 3 and above.

I agree and disagree, its just a different fighting style, so sure powerful attacks are rare, dueling is about quick attacks and defense.
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November 7th, 2006, 13:56
Balancing a game like this - while keeping as close to PnP rulesets … must be a nightmare

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November 8th, 2006, 05:45
I think someone with the strength of a titan would have no problem duel wielding 2 greatswords….

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November 8th, 2006, 05:53
It's not really about the strength of holding the weapon, it's what you are able to put into the weapon, and with what technique. When using a single sword, like the Samurais did, you can do fast swings with one hand, but put all your body into the one sword when needed for extra force. Also, you can focus on that one sword and its movement instead of keeping track of two swords + enemies + your own feet + surroundings + etc.

In the good old days, dual-wielders were rare and far between. It's just not practical compared to a shield, spear or two-handed weapons, simply because there were no "adventurers". These were soldiers with specific purposes, not all-rounders, so people with shields needed them to deflect arrows, those with 2h weapons went up against heavy armored opponents, and those with spear were needed against chavalry.

Of course, this is very simplified, but the point is - dual-wielding in general may have been used by certain gladiators and such, for duals perhaps, but in the middle of a war? Not really, there are better things to do.
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November 8th, 2006, 10:18
Well there is even a Feat called Monkey grip that lets you wield 2 Greatswords which are large weapons and while my question was on medium weapons.
Unless this is an oversite either in the Ruleset or Obsidian/Bioware since it was the same rule in NWN 1, its really nonsence as applied to this game.

I agree this is not common and very specialized but that is the point of a game like this you should be able to specialize.
The whole reason behind having so many Feats which you will never be able to use unless you use Leto or something, is you basicly developing your personal choice or style, atm.
I am just about to hit 5th level, which is a Feat level, iir so I will see if Monkey Grip will allow it, since I haven't tested that route yet.
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November 8th, 2006, 11:20
Well, it might have something to do with weight balance. Greatswords are heaviest near the hilt, so swinging them around is not that hard compared to something with most of its weight near the end - imagine swinging two sledgehammers around, you'd be tossed around in uncontrollable manner.

Either that or its just a balance issue, D&D has loads of that nowadays. I personally loved older versions better than anything after 3.0, but then again I love Al Bundy more than Friends so what do I know..
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November 8th, 2006, 14:58
I don't think weapon weight should even figure into the equation once your strength gets over 20 or so after all - you can carry 3 suits of full plate mail in your backpack….. Possibly the length of the weapon might have some impact as it would be easier to hurt yourself with a long weapon.

I think most DM's would allow you duel wield flails if you really wanted to, just NWN doesn't.

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November 8th, 2006, 18:30
Hey if you like Classic B movies you should check out Big Trouble in Little China, with Kurt Russel, very funny.
Anyway Peter Kwong does a nice Duel Katana (long swords) though short in duration, it shows some of the moves possible.

I agree about the weight the Rules are just broken, if not in 3.5 or where ever this comes from then NWN rules.

Now I think about it, I don't recall Great Sword's majority of weight coming from the hilt, were are talking about a 5ft - 6 ft sword here in RL reference, iir.
So by contrast they are saying I can wield 2, 5ft - 6ft swords with -2 penilty but I cant even pick up 2, 3ft maces, that just silly.

I have even seen some Martial Artist Duel Weild mace like weapons with straps to be able to twirl them like Numchucks.
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