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Default Diablo 3 - Confirmed in Paris

July 2nd, 2008, 07:33
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I completely agree. I've written op-ed pieces long in the past that argue most hack'n'slash RPGs completely miss some of the core components of Diablo 2's success - namely a surface accessibility that belies the depth of the skill tree system. There's a reason so many people have played D2 for so long and the ability to build different, complex builds is part of it.

But that doesn't change the fact that D2 had a different atmosphere and immersion factor for me, so I'm at a loss to understand why I have to be excited about D3 according to Steel_Wind.
Naturally, there will always be people who're not excited by one thing or another. I think Steel_Wind's post was another example of lost objectivity.

I think D3 looks great, but I don't fail to recognise a change of atmosphere apparent in the videos. While I think D2 also had a cartoonish approach to the characters and mobs, I think the world was darker and more mature in style.

However, I think the actual design of the world - judging from the videos - seems A LOT more interesting and I'd love to explore such places - rather than the endless random dungeons of Diablo 2. That said, I'm sure there will be randomly generated dungeons, I just think they'll have a more hand-made flavor about them.

Would I have preferred the less colorful and vibrant style in D2? Probably. But I suffer no illusion about Blizzard wanting to limit their exposure. As long as they improve upon the D2 formula in terms of gameplay, I think I can deal with the new style just fine.

However, we shouldn't forget that D2 was primarily done by Blizzard North - from which most key people left for Flagship Studios. I don't implicitly trust Blizzard to understand the quality of D2 in-depth, and I do worry slightly that they'll somehow dumb it down - which IS quite possible despite what people are saying here.

If you look at Hellgate London, you'll find that - whatever you may think of the game - the core mechanics are actually an evolution of Diabo 2. Unfortunately, it lacks the style, atmosphere, and polish of a Blizzard game. There's also no story or cool cutscenes. But the actual core gameplay is pretty brilliant - if you ask me - and I somehow doubt I can expect a similar evolution in D3. In fact, I haven't seen anything truly great from Blizzard since the Blizzard North happening. I'm very disappointed by the development of World of Warcraft since it was released - though I think the core design is brilliant - and I'm not really sure they're still as good as they once were.

But I have no doubt they know how to make a game that appeals to the masses and sells extremely well.
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July 2nd, 2008, 10:49
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If you look at Hellgate London, you'll find that - whatever you may think of the game - the core mechanics are actually an evolution of Diabo 2. Unfortunately, it lacks the style, atmosphere, and polish of a Blizzard game. There's also no story or cool cutscenes.
There are no custscenes but there is a story that is told through the npc conversations between the missions. They tell you what the situation is, what to do next and why. They even comment the stuff that happens in the missions. I played the HL beta last fall and i still remember bits of the story.

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July 2nd, 2008, 10:56
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
There are no custscenes but there is a story that is told through the npc conversations between the missions. They tell you what the situation is, what to do next and why. They even comment the stuff that happens in the missions. I played the HL beta last fall and i still remember bits of the story.
Yes, there's a story.

I worded that wrong.

I should have said the story is awful and the presentation is even worse. I've played HGL for many hours - and I still have no idea what the story is about - nor do I care in the least. It just didn't make sense to me and I really tried to read it thoroughly at first. I'm sure it's there if you have the will to actually click through it and take note of important events - but I certainly don't.

The Diablos were never about story, either, but the presentation was miles ahead of HGL - and the actual story was enough to represent an extra incentive to play it through.
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July 2nd, 2008, 11:02
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I should have said the story is awful and the presentation is even worse. I've played HGL for many hours - and I still have no idea what the story is about - nor do I care in the least.

The Diablos were never about story, either, but the presentation was miles ahead of HGL - and the actual story was enough to represent an extra incentive to play it through.
I only played diablo2 few times but I didnt see any story and thought the presentation was awful especially the dummy npcs in the starting village. My friend showed me the fancy cutsceens but I didnt see any story in them either. As for HGL its not singleplayer rpg quality but still better than what mmos offer usually so its somthing - and I did catch the story from the beginning without any problems. But as said its all about taste.

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July 2nd, 2008, 11:05
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
I only played diablo2 few times but I didnt see any story and thought the presentation was awful especially the dummy npcs in the starting village. My friend showed me the fancy cutsceens but I didnt see any story in them either. As for HGL its not singleplayer rpg quality but still better than what mmos offer usually so its somthing - and I did catch the story from the beginning without any problems. But as said its all about taste.
I think HGL is an excellent game, I just don't care for the story. I personally think most modern MMOs have MUCH better story focus than HGL. LOTRO is a very good example of an MMO that contains a solid story aspect.

Naturally, it's about taste, and I understand that people didn't enjoy the story in Diablo 2. I wouldn't have thought anyone would find HGL better in that regard, but as always, we have exceptions
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July 2nd, 2008, 11:40
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I personally think most modern MMOs have MUCH better story focus than HGL. LOTRO is a very good example of an MMO that contains a solid story aspect.
As mmogs I meant the top-mmos ala ultima online=>everquest=>world of warcraft. New mmos have more of a story yes but they are more like backstage mmos when compared to wow (allthough I do have LOTRO on my playlist just like HL). And wows story is just non-existant - I had som fun with HL storymissions after enjoying 30 lvls of wows quests.

Blizzard is working on a new mmo btw - hopefully theyll put more focus on story this time.

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Last edited by zakhal; July 2nd, 2008 at 11:47.
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July 2nd, 2008, 11:52
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
As mmogs I meant the top-mmos ala ultima online=>everquest=>world of warcraft. New mmos have more of a story yes but they are more like backstage mmos when compared to wow (allthough I do have LOTRO on my playlist just like HL). And wows story is just non-existant - I had som fun with HL storymissions after enjoying 30 lvls of wows quests.
Top MMOs like UO and EQ?

I think you're a bit behind the times, to be honest.

Even WoW had a vastly more involving story aspect than HGL - though I don't think it's a wholesome story experience. But I can think of several quests offhand that satisfies the story lover in me a lot more than anything in HGL. The entire area of Duskwood would be a good example, with a lot of cool background lore.

But pretty much all current day MMOs, like Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, LOTRO, EverQuest 2, and so on - are all much more evolved in terms of storytelling than Hellgate.

Naturally, that's just what I think, and remember that I'm only talking about those games in comparison with HGL. In comparison with strong singleplayer stories, ala Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape, Witcher, and so on - no MMO has achieved anything close to those games in terms of interesting and cohesive storylines.
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July 2nd, 2008, 12:23
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Top MMOs like UO and EQ?
I think you're a bit behind the times, to be honest.
Did you see the "arrow" =>? UO was the first top-mmo, then it was EQ and now its wow.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Even WoW had a vastly more involving story aspect than HGL - though I don't think it's a wholesome story experience. But I can think of several quests offhand that satisfies the story lover in me a lot more than anything in HGL. The entire area of Duskwood would be a good example, with a lot of cool background lore.
I played only horde lvl30 but the boring quests made me quit. I really did try to immerse myself into them by reading the quests text etc but I couldnt get anything out of them. Perhaps there were som interesting quests somwhere but I never found them.

People have said that wow has background lore but I dont consider it as a story. Those two are different:
Lore: Accumulated facts, traditions, or beliefs about a particular subject.
Story: The plot of a narrative or dramatic work.
Lore is nice to have as an extra but it can never replace the story.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But pretty much all current day MMOs, like Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, LOTRO, EverQuest 2, and so on - are all much more evolved in terms of storytelling than Hellgate.
To make it more clear what I meant as a most common mmos were the ones that people play/have played most commonly. And that means ultima online, everquest and now world of warcraft.

Those are the genre defining (best-selling) mmos atleast to me too and genre-defining is somthing that decides the trends like story or no story. The new ones have better story but noone of them have yet become common enough to top wow and thus redefine the trends.

I never said that new mmos dont have story. It just that I dont consider them as very "popular" or somthing that people commonly play. It doesnt matter how many new mmos are released if people just keep to playing wow like its the only mmo in existance. Im actually afraid that once I get the time to finally play tabula rasa the servers are offline due to lack of players.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
In comparison with strong singleplayer stories, ala Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape, Witcher, and so on - no MMO has achieved anything close to those games in terms of interesting and cohesive storylines.
Actually guild wars nightfall has been commented at best to have story equal to singleplayer rpg. I havent played that campaign yet though. Cant wait to see guild wars 2.

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Last edited by zakhal; July 2nd, 2008 at 13:03.
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July 2nd, 2008, 14:33
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
and the ability to build different, complex builds
Different, complex builds ?

Something must've slipped my attention.

I was just playing !!!

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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