Wasteland 2 - New Patch & Lets Play

Moriendor said:

This is what Fargo said on perks (source is Reddit AMA). He doesn't really say 'yes we will' but it sounds like they very probably might or something like that .

With every game I have ever worked on there have been things that I wanted it. It's always painful to ship any game knowing that it could always be better. I really wanted perks and traits but now with games staying live after ship we will plan to revisit adding a number of things. One of the areas that I designed for the game was dropped due to production and of course I had great affinity for it. It was an area in which Ronald Reagan had become a deity.. kind of like real life actually.​

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This I find frustrating. At some point you can't add everything you ever want to; things have to ship. It's unfair for existing players to constantly move the goal posts, and have the early adopters who supported you through thick and thin settle for a lesser experience than those who will try your product when it hit the bargain bin.

I think that the fact people can get instant updates through their Steam account is getting greatly abused. When you worked with retailers you couldn't do this, you had to settle for what you could ship out.

Unfinished ideas are better kept for a sequel.

Embolus said:

Yeah but aren't these beat-up post apocalyptic guns worn down from prolonged use and harsh environments?

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Exactly.

Pretty sure that's the angle they were going for when they added weapon jams to the game. These weapons are old and not in tip-top shape anymore...

I'm okay with downloadable updates, except when they require a game restart. If they do add in Perks, say, then I hope the existing characters just get a set of unassigned Perks slots based on their level. You might not be able to optimize for Perks with a game in progress, but at least you'll be able to use them.

human_male said:

I hope they add some more portriats.

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Why not use custom ones? You can add as many as you like yourself.

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com//viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7440

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.781722505188171.1073741836.349361458424280&type=3

I have learned my lesson, I will not play this until at least six more months worth of patches and updates have passed.

Humanity has risen! said:

I have learned my lesson, I will not play this until at least six more months worth of patches and updates have passed.

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I already finished it before the first patch and it was awesome. No regrets.

Fluent said:

Exactly.

Pretty sure that's the angle they were going for when they added weapon jams to the game. These weapons are old and not in tip-top shape anymore…

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I don't know. I don't think this is as good an argument as one might think. The rangers actually have one vendor at the Citadel who sells crap/cheap weapons (with super high jam rates). What you said might be true for those, but all the other weapons are subject to regular maintenance. In the Ranger Citadel they even mention that they build own/new weapons.

But the whole jam thing is blown out of proportion anyway, because at some point there's a high availability of the mod "sturdy mag", which, when applied, pretty much removes jams. So players only have to hold out until they get their hands on that stuff.

I'll be waiting for a few more patches as well but it's not because I feel like I can't enjoy WL2 in its present state. I simply have far too many games in my backlog right now including the original Wasteland.

tomasp3n said:

Of course the cartridge size isn't relevant, I was just refering to the fact that the weapons jam as much as they say they will (on average), while some people claim they jam more. People wrongly believe a 2% weapon will almost never jam, when in fact it will jam on every 50th shot on average, which is still quite more often than never.

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Averaging combat events is a terrible idea that people supposedly interested in gameplay should explain when they use it (players interested in story can pass on this one)

Now that the cartridge issue is cleared, and since it is connected to the number of shots, it is possible to move on.

I've been tracking jammings (and a few other values), the exhibited results do not come near the announced values.

Players seldom shoot 50th shot in a row. Combats use less shooting.
In one combat, one character had three jams for 11 shot bullets.
The guy with the 2 shot shotgun(2% risk) is on the trend of having a jam one shot out of three.

Embolus said:

Yeah but aren't these beat-up post apocalyptic guns worn down from prolonged use and harsh environments?

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A simulationist approach.
That is a convenient rationalization. Weaponry of this type is robust and their design is standardized.
The loot is abundant, people around have gunsmithery knowledge. They could as well assemble reliable versions of a gun model.

It has nothing to do with a simulationist approach. It is gameplay related. Combat situations demand uncertainty to hook the player. The turn based sequence "ugoigo" has strong limitations on this side.
Therefore uncertainty is introduced through various means, the high rate of jamming is one of those tricks.

Reliability of estimates in this type of games is the primary concern for players interested in gameplay.

Lately, I thought that Xenonauts held the record in this register.
During my playthroughs, I witnessed two three bullet shots missed in a row, each shot coming with 95 % chance. It might be six 95 % shot that missed in a row. I dont know because the manual does not tell if burst shots outcomes are determined one bullet each.

Wasteland 2 beat that as it states that each bullet is determined on its own.
I witnessed six 91 % bullets missing in a row.
Lower estimates but for sure there were six 91 % misses in a row.

30 years on and same limitations. No progress.

ChienAboyeur said:

A simulationist approach.
That is a convenient rationalization. Weaponry of this type is robust and their design is standardized.
The loot is abundant, people around have gunsmithery knowledge. They could as well assemble reliable versions of a gun model. It has nothing to do with a simulationist approach. It is gameplay related.

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People in the middle-ages had weaponsmith knowledge, doesn't mean every sword they made was an Ulfberht. Most were functioning pieces of crap. People in the Wasteland would likely be Macgyvers patch-working everything, but until Earth made a comeback resources would continue to be scarce and weapons would be beat-up post apocalyptic guns worn down from prolonged use and harsh environments. There would of course be exceptions in focused cells of specialists but again, their days would be numbered.

Sometimes what may seem convenient is simply obvious.

Embolus said:

Sometimes what may seem convenient is simply obvious.

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You are wrong. It's only in computer games that you have to hit your enemy multiple times. In reality one hit is often enough to disable or kill your opponent. If firearms had W2's jam rate reported by Chien, people would simply abandon the unreliable weapons and go back to the tried and trusted bows and crossbows.

zahratustra said:

You are wrong.

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Okay God, I'll keep that in mind.

There was an explanation why I wrote that and yet you throw a fit at the first sentence?

Embolus said:

People in the middle-ages had weaponsmith knowledge, doesn't mean every sword they made was an Ulfberht. Most were functioning pieces of crap. People in the Wasteland would likely be Macgyvers patch-working everything, but until Earth made a comeback resources would continue to be scarce and weapons would be beat-up post apocalyptic guns worn down from prolonged use and harsh environments. There would of course be exceptions in focused cells of specialists but again, their days would be numbered.

Sometimes what may seem convenient is simply obvious.

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Middle age people worked under different methologies. Many armours were tailored for example. There was no standardization.

Weapons in this game are produced these days, with current methods of production that are known.
It follows that a weapon is a standardized weapon. Contrary to a middle age production when two swords could look different.

The substitution of various pieces is designed to be convenient.

Resources are not scarce in the game. Meaningful resources that is. You can find easily weapons. How many revolvers of the same model have players sold? Five, ten?
After finding 5, ten guns of the same model, nothing should prevent the assembly of a weapon in good condition. With a jamming rate closing the rate of a weapon in a pristine condition.

ChienAboyeur said:

In one combat, one character had three jams for 11 shot bullets.
The guy with the 2 shot shotgun(2% risk) is on the trend of having a jam one shot out of three.

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I'm not the only one seeing abnormal jamming. I was wondering if I triggered something or the game had a problem. Now, in every fight, all my characters jam their weapons at least once. Sometimes twice for longer fight. We are talking jamming about every 3-5 shots.

It's like the 2% became 20%…but only for my party. Enemies almost never jam their weapons.

ChienAboyeur said:

Averaging combat events is a terrible idea that people supposedly interested in gameplay should explain when they use it (players interested in story can pass on this one)

I believe I did state that in the post, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I've been tracking jammings (and a few other values), the exhibited results do not come near the announced values.

Players seldom shoot 50th shot in a row. Combats use less shooting.
In one combat, one character had three jams for 11 shot bullets.
The guy with the 2 shot shotgun(2% risk) is on the trend of having a jam one shot out of three.

Seriously? Either the RNG is screwing you over big time or there is something severely wrong with you game, I'm nowhere near those numbers, and most fights NONE of my weapons jam even if my Party fires around 20-30 shots.

It has nothing to do with a simulationist approach. It is gameplay related. Combat situations demand uncertainty to hook the player. The turn based sequence "ugoigo" has strong limitations on this side.
Therefore uncertainty is introduced through various means, the high rate of jamming is one of those tricks.

True. I like it though.

Reliability of estimates in this type of games is the primary concern for players interested in gameplay.

Absolutely, the RNG has to be working properly and the estimates given should be accurate.

Lately, I thought that Xenonauts held the record in this register.
During my playthroughs, I witnessed two three bullet shots missed in a row, each shot coming with 95 % chance. It might be six 95 % shot that missed in a row. I dont know because the manual does not tell if burst shots outcomes are determined one bullet each.

Weird, this never happened to me in Xenonauts either. Does your computer like to mess with you?

Wasteland 2 beat that as it states that each bullet is determined on its own.
I witnessed six 91 % bullets missing in a row.
Lower estimates but for sure there were six 91 % misses in a row.

That's just sick. While possible in theory, so is winning a million dollars on a lottery. Unless you actually mean what you wrote and you had 91% chance to miss. Then it's not that big a deal…

What do you mean by "lower estimates but for sure…" That part of the sentence don't make any sense.

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My comments in bold. It really sounds like the game is messed up for you Chien, those numbers don't add up…

I'll begin playing when my CE finally arrives. Need to figure out what to do with these extra W2 and D:OS copies from Kickstarter though.

You could be a gentle soul and gift W2 to me.

azarhal said:

I'm not the only one seeing abnormal jamming. I was wondering if I triggered something or the game had a problem. Now, in every fight, all my characters jam their weapons at least once. Sometimes twice for longer fight. We are talking jamming about every 3-5 shots.

It's like the 2% became 20%…but only for my party. Enemies almost never jam their weapons.

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Your not alone as even my guns jam every 2-5 shots even when modded also. It's getting very tiring, and the feature should of never been added to the game.

Did you repair it ? Maybe it's broken