Will the DS be the king of RPG's this gen?

Konjad said:

Excluding games that are on PC as well there aren't any RPGs on Xbox360/PS3 except epic new Final Fantasy XLVII and it's copies.

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That couldn't be further from the truth. While there certainly isn't an overabundance of great RPGs on the 360, there are a few to speak of. Tales of Vesparia, Star Ocean, Fable II, Infinite Undiscovery, etc.

JDR13 said:

That couldn't be further from the truth. While there certainly isn't an overabundance of great RPGs on the 360, there are a few to speak of. Tales of Vesparia, Star Ocean, Fable II, Infinite Undiscovery, etc.

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Sorry for my mistake then. Well, better if I won't speak about games on consoles I don't own

JDR13 said:

That couldn't be further from the truth. While there certainly isn't an overabundance of great RPGs on the 360, there are a few to speak of. Tales of Vesparia, Star Ocean, Fable II, Infinite Undiscovery, etc.

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None of which is as good as The World Ends With You, or has the satisfying 'old school' feel of Etrian Odyssey or Dark Spire, the fun 'rogue-like' games such as Shiren the Wanderer, and so on.

People tend to dismiss the DS games based on small screen and some Pokemon-kiddy image. They have the same mind-set as those who call PC gaming dead ... and are as correct.

txa1265 said:

None of which is as good as The World Ends With You, or has the satisfying 'old school' feel of Etrian Odyssey or Dark Spire, the fun 'rogue-like' games such as Shiren the Wanderer, and so on.

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I think it's safe to say that opinion would differ from person to person.

JDR13 said:

I think it's safe to say that opinion would differ from person to person.

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The 'goodness' of TWEWY is the only 'subjective' one there ... the others are objective fact. And I would say that the innovativeness of TWEWY is not in question compared to the rote-standard console-RPG's represented on the X360/PS3/Wii ... but that in and of itself is subjective

txa1265 said:

The 'goodness' of TWEWY is the only 'subjective' one there ... the others are objective fact. And I would say that the innovativeness of TWEWY is not in question compared to the rote-standard console-RPG's represented on the X360/PS3/Wii ... but that in and of itself is subjective

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You're simply saying that the 360 doesn't have anything to match the particular "flavor" of some of those games, that's fine. Just like the DS has nothing that really matches Fable II, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean, etc.

JDR13 said:

You're simply saying that the 360 doesn't have anything to match the particular "flavor" of some of those games, that's fine. Just like the DS has nothing that really matches Fable II, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean, etc.

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I'm not talking about the X360 - those games you mention are general enough to be consistent with stuff released on the PS3 & Wii ... and pretty much the same as what was released on the PS2 & Cube & XBOX but with prettier graphics. ToV is supposed to have a really good story, but we all know about Fable II, and Star Ocean ... well, not breaking any ground there.

Whereas things like Etrian Odyssey are truly unique and not represented on any console platform.

txa1265 said:

I'm not talking about the X360 - those games you mention are general enough to be consistent with stuff released on the PS3 & Wii ... and pretty much the same as what was released on the PS2 & Cube & XBOX but with prettier graphics.

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So are more than 90% of the games on the DS, except that graphics and sound *do* matter to many people, even if they don't matter to you.

As far as Etrian Odtssey goes, if you mean "unique" by using a stlyus to draw your own maps, then sure. Other than that, there's nothing incredibly unique about it.

JDR13 said:

You're simply saying that the 360 doesn't have anything to match the particular "flavor" of some of those games, that's fine. Just like the DS has nothing that really matches Fable II, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean, etc.

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I've played all those games, but was disappointed by all of them.

Damian Mahadevan said:

I've played all those games, but was disappointed by all of them.

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Yes of course you have....

I played every rpg across all systems, i dont have a job so that is all i do. I sold the games so i cant prove it though.

And i dont even consider Etrian Oddessy one of the better games on the ds. Mazes of Fate is a much better game despite not having the drawing map thing. But Etrian oddessy's mapmaking system and FOE system is awesome though.

JDR13 said:

So are more than 90% of the games on the DS, except that graphics and sound *do* matter to many people, even if they don't matter to you.

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And the majority of gamers prefer using a handheld system, then the next largest segment prefers a console controller ... but does that mean we are wrong for preferring the PC?

JDR13 said:

As far as Etrian Odtssey goes, if you mean "unique" by using a stlyus to draw your own maps, then sure. Other than that, there's nothing incredibly unique about it.

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OK, if it is not unique, name the games on the PS3/X360/Wii that deliver an old-skool hardcore PC gaming experience like Mazes of Fate or Etrian Odyssey?

I understand that different people have different preferences, but I think the hang-up is that you see determined to never give the DS more than a begrudging 'yeah, it is ok' acceptance. Fine, that is your personal preference, but it seems to bring an awful lot of bias to the table - you appear closed to anything positive said about the DS or any of its games.

txa1265 said:

And the majority of gamers prefer using a handheld system, then the next largest segment prefers a console controller ... but does that mean we are wrong for preferring the PC?.

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I think we both know better than to try to use the "sales=prefered" analogy here. Handhelds will always sell a lot due to their lower price and, most importantly, convenience.

txa1265 said:

OK, if it is not unique, name the games on the PS3/X360/Wii that deliver an old-skool hardcore PC gaming experience like Mazes of Fate or Etrian Odyssey?

I understand that different people have different preferences, but I think the hang-up is that you see determined to never give the DS more than a begrudging 'yeah, it is ok' acceptance. Fine, that is your personal preference, but it seems to bring an awful lot of bias to the table - you appear closed to anything positive said about the DS or any of its games.

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Wait, now it went from "any console platform" to "PS3/X360/Wii"? It doesn't matter anyways...

If someone really wanted to play the equivalent of a 15 year old PC game on a portable system, they could simple put DosBox on their PDA and play even better games. I just don't see a ton of people buying a DS for those particular games, or any DS RPG for that matter. None of the top 10 selling games for the DS are RPG's.

I have to be honest here Mike, you using the word "bias" when it comes to the DS is nothing short of Ironic.

As defensive as you're starting to become, it's as if I said " the DS is a worthless piece of crap", rather than simply saying I don't think it's the "king of all platforms".

JDR13 said:

I think we both know better than to try to use the "sales=prefered" analogy here. Handhelds will always sell a lot due to their lower price and, most importantly, convenience.

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Absolutely agree - I was just saying that 'graphics = quality' is an equal fallacy.

JDR13 said:

Wait, now it went from "any console platform" to "PS3/X360/Wii"? It doesn't matter anyways...

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Actually, it was that we have made it clear that the PC is not a 'generation console', so I was sticking to current gen stuff. The PSP, love it though I do, offers exactly one innovative game - Dungeon Maker. The rest are PS2/PSx game types, by and large.

JDR13 said:

I just don't see a ton of people buying a DS for those particular games, or any DS RPG for that matter. None of the top 10 selling games for the DS are RPG's.

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Well, the new Dragon Quest has sold over 4 million copies in a few weeks, and if you look at all-time sales, the only RPG's in the top 50 overall are WoW, FF VII and Pokemon games ... so again, the sales thing is always tricky, as you said.

JDR13 said:

I have to be honest here Mike, you using the word "bias" when it comes to the DS is nothing short of Ironic.

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I disagree - all I am saying is that handhelds deserve equal standing with consoles, and that surprisingly for this generation it appears that the strongest game library showing is on a handheld not a console.

What is ironic is that if you asked my wife to grab the one handheld she thinks I'd prefer it would be the PSP!

JDR13 said:

As defensive as you're starting to become, it's as if I said " the DS is a worthless piece of crap", rather than simply saying I don't think it's the "king of all platforms".

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Nah - I just am trying to see if you really believe that handhelds are inherently an inferior gaming platform. I have no vested interest in the DS ... I'm still a PC gamer.

skavenhorde said:

It just surprises me a little that PS3, X-box360 or even the Wii couldn't come up with some decent RPGs.

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Well I'm glad the DS and GBA before saw a lot or RPG releases because Nintendo has dropped the ball big time with their non-handheld consoles. The SNES was the king of RPGs back in the day but the Nintendo 64, Gamecube and now Wii have pathetic libraries!

It's sad when you can list them in a couple of lines:

N64 only had Paper Mario if I recall correctly and Quest 64 (which I remember from the reviews as being horrendous).

Gamecube: Tales Of Symphonia which I loved, Baiten Katos which I liked a little, a sequel which I never bothered with, Paper Mario 2 which was awesome and Skies Of Arcadia, a port.

Wii: There's a Tales game but is that all?

Now I can't even remember half the RPGs released for the PS2.

txa1265 said:

Absolutely agree - I was just saying that 'graphics = quality' is an equal fallacy.

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No one here ever claimed that graphics = quality, just that graphics are a legitimate factor.

txa1265 said:

Actually, it was that we have made it clear that the PC is not a 'generation console', so I was sticking to current gen stuff. The PSP, love it though I do, offers exactly one innovative game - Dungeon Maker. The rest are PS2/PSx game types, by and large.

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Just because something hasn't been done in awhile doesn't make it innovative. You'd actually be better off citing titles like 'Nintendogs' if you want to talk about innovation.

txa1265 said:

Well, the new Dragon Quest has sold over 4 million copies in a few weeks, and if you look at all-time sales, the only RPG's in the top 50 overall are WoW, FF VII and Pokemon games ... so again, the sales thing is always tricky, as you said. .

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I'm talking about individual system top tens, not "all time" sales. The NES, PS1, PS2, Xbox, and even the PSP all had/have at least 2 RPGs among their top ten. Although I must correct what I said about the DS not having any, it actually has 2, if you consider Pokémon to be an RPG.

txa1265 said:

Nah - I just am trying to see if you really believe that handhelds are inherently an inferior gaming platform.

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Again, that would be purely subjective depending on what matters to the individual. The fact is that handhelds are inferior in a lot of aesthetic aspects, but their portability makes up for their graphics, sound, and screen size.