Drakensang The more I play the more disappointed I get

Damian Mahadevan said:

I was referring to the witcher's card collecting sidequest thingy not drakensangs which i havent even started(dont know how to). The combat was okay in the witcher, but what compelled me to the witcher orginally was the story but it turns out that it was nothing but a facade for collecting those cards. As in the worst choice you make in the witcher is not choosing the options to get to sleeping with the girls.

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Yeah, I get that you're talking about The Witcher (didn't even know DraSang had card collecting) but I simply don't get your point. I thought TW had one of the best CRPG stories in years and I didn't sleep with a bunch of girls - I just don't get your point.

Anyway, each to his own and this thread is about DraSang but I've never heard anyone else argue it was all a facade for the cards, and it certainly didn't work that way for me.

The cards in witcher seems to be some kind of red blanket to many here. TW had the most orginal storyline and atmosphere I've experienced in years in a rpg game. Plus it was a really fun game to play. It isn't perfect, but saying that storyline was facade for collecting girl cards is quite absurd claim. Besides as far as I've understood sleeping with many women is a usual thing for Geralt even in books, so game continues this tradtion by offering you THE CHOISE. The cards may have been a slight miscalculation from CD projekt as they don't really add much to the atmosphere, but either way they aren't the sole focus of Witcher.

And as for Drakensang I'm still debating whether to buy it or not. It seems genuinely fun rpg to play, but a bit generic in terms of atmosphere and storytelling..Am I right? Nonetheless there isn't anything better in the horisont for some time so I probably end up buying it anyhow and because i hope these new studios to keep doing more crpgs.

Dhruin said:

Yeah, I get that you're talking about The Witcher (didn't even know DraSang had card collecting) but I simply don't get your point. I thought TW had one of the best CRPG stories in years and I didn't sleep with a bunch of girls - I just don't get your point.

Anyway, each to his own and this thread is about DraSang but I've never heard anyone else argue it was all a facade for the cards, and it certainly didn't work that way for me.

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You didnt find that you got the best rewards with the route for card collecting? I've tried the various options and that s the impression i got.

Damian Mahadevan said:

You didnt find that you got the best rewards with the route for card collecting? I've tried the various options and that s the impression i got.

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But you don't *have* to. It's like in jRPGs. Sometimes there's the bad ending, the good ending, and the super-good-ending. For the super-good-ending you need to do crazy stuff that most of the times you can only do it by following a walkthrough. Since I don't follow walkthroughs when playing, 95% of the times I miss the 'super-good-ending', that doesn't mean I enjoyed the game any less (in fact, I'd say I enjoyed it more since I didn't have to bother with things like wasting 1 hour running in the desert to find a gold coin under a cactus).
Just forget about the cards and play the game as you would like it.

The thing that I disliked more about The Witcher is the gameplay. I didnt like the twitch aspect of it and I gave up while playing the marsh level.

The story, the atmosphere are really great... better than the one you can find in Drakensand but that alone was not enough to keep me in the game. I prefer a strategic based gameplay like the one found in Drakensang, with a party, a more complete set of equipment, greater customization... Not only trying to find out whatever weapons and potion/lotion/powder/whatever that deal better with your opponent du jour.

vanedor said:

The thing that I disliked more about The Witcher is the gameplay. I didnt like the twitch aspect of it and I gave up while playing the marsh level.

The story, the atmosphere are really great... better than the one you can find in Drakensand but that alone was not enough to keep me in the game. I prefer a strategic based gameplay like the one found in Drakensang, with a party, a more complete set of equipment, greater customization... Not only trying to find out whatever weapons and potion/lotion/powder/whatever that deal better with your opponent du jour.

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Well there, I couldn't agree more. I think I quit The Witcher in about that same area. Twitch combat just doesn't mix with RPG for me.

What kind of discussion style is this in this thread? Internet forums have traditions. If Drakensang has cards with naked babes I demand pictures!

Woo there are pornocards in Drakensang??? Where and how get them?

Not that I actually just did this or anything, but you might try rolling up a Novadi female, enter world, hit "I" ... lose the cloth coat, pantaloons and poulaines.

wolfing said:

But you don't *have* to. It's like in jRPGs. Sometimes there's the bad ending, the good ending, and the super-good-ending. For the super-good-ending you need to do crazy stuff that most of the times you can only do it by following a walkthrough. Since I don't follow walkthroughs when playing, 95% of the times I miss the 'super-good-ending', that doesn't mean I enjoyed the game any less (in fact, I'd say I enjoyed it more since I didn't have to bother with things like wasting 1 hour running in the desert to find a gold coin under a cactus).
Just forget about the cards and play the game as you would like it.

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I save and try all the possible options. In the witcher the best endings lies with sleeping with the female path, i like to think. And the witcher would have made me think if the best options didnt head that way. Such a dissapointment because of the missed opportunity there. Anyway back to drakensang.

Well, that's why we don't agree. You're busy figuring out what you didn't get, while I'm just playing the game as I see fit. Even then, I still don't understand - what rewards? I did romance Shani (seemed appropriate to me) - all I remember getting is a short video and a silly card. The "reward" there for me was being able to do something that seemed natural for my version of Geralt.

The "feel good" ending.

You'll have to spell it out to me, sorry. I played it twice, siding with each of the two main factions in turn. What's the "feel good" ending?

Yeah, I really also don't understand what's with

the the best endings lies with sleeping with the female path,

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idea.
Whether you choose to collect the sex cards or not, has zero effect at all on the main story line of TW, they are just fun little minigames like brawling and playing dice, and in fact, they are even less crucial to the storyline or gameplay than brawling or paying dice, because the latter you can win some money with, and all you get with the sex thing, is the card.

Well, if you read the books, what you get to understand is that Geralt was an experiment, who not only went through the Witcher mutation that rendered him sterile, and created an aura that makes him irresistible to women (2 of the side-effects) but also retained his human feelings and emotions. So, in a way, the sex thing is part of Geralt's personal story, because he sits with the dilemma that he can never settle down and have children; but on the other hand, women are attracted to him, and he is also attracted to them, for physical and emotional reasons - that is why he tends to be so promiscuous.

Also, as far as choices are concerned - in TW your choices have consequences all the way to the end. I'm busy with my second playthrough, and I guarantee you that different choices makes the game experience quite different. I've also played the mini-adventures that came with the Enhanced Ed., and "The Price of Neutrality" has 4 different endings, all of them based on choices you make, so I really don't get the point about your choices not mattering?

Also, the TW is pretty non-linear in the sense of that there are many different ways in which to tackle and solve quests. You can play the game 3 or 4 times in a row, and do it differently every time.

Lastly I'd better not comment on the TW combat which I enjoyed very much, as I do tend to play quite a bit of action games as well, and from that perspective the combat was actually very nice, and quite a lot less hectic and rather more tactical than what most Action-RPG's offer up.

Well, this is actually the Drakensang board, so... anyway, regarding Drakensang: I'm not really far enough in the game to comment, but I'm actually liking it more and more the more I play it. Early days though, I haven't done the ratfight under Ferdock yet...

Oh, and I find the graphics very pretty. My only gripe is with some of the character models. Those who enjoy having a sexy woman as their avatar at times, will be sadly disappointed should they decide to choose the female warrior... (I'm not talking about myself personally here, just a remark in general, you know?)

Oh, and talking of choices: my main gripe with Drakensang so far would probably be a lack of story choices. The story seems very linear, and there is only one way to solve quests.

Several people in the German Drakensang community (like me, I admit) were disappointed, because there was too much combat for them and too few riddles.

Maybe the German community is a bit different from the rest of the world, but I had the impression (subjective, of course) that quite a number of players wanted real consequences of actions - stealing was the worst example. Or of general actions within the game.

The most lengthy compailning "articles" wre intensively looking at Drakensang in quite a detailed view, and there were - to the critical eye, of course - many, many details that distracted their fun - the "real consequences" thing, for example.

In my case, the amount of combat became so much I just stopped the game mid-way, and have never resumed it this far.

I'm wondering whether German players really want more riddles than the rest of the world wants, or not. I have a slight tendency towards "yes", because Germans have a little bit different apptoach towards games, I think, than the majority out there, especially in the U.S. , where most games come from.

I call this "caltural differences", but I really can't boil it down to what these differences [Germany - rest of the world] really are at the moment.

But I think I can say that Germans are "traditionally" rather known as rather logically thinking people who aren't that much into emotions like other countries (cliché: Italy, Spain, for example).

So, considering this, I think I can say that I wouldn't be surprised if German gamers really would prefer more riddles than the rest of the world does.

I'm not sure.

The amount of sold units of Drakensang is impressive, but I really don't know what all of these people really think about it, whether the amount of riddles and of fighting is good enough for them or what, because in the forums there is only a tiny fraction of the overall sales.
And a common rule says that those who are content with something rarely post about it in forums.
On the other hand, people who are critical about something are rather posting about it in forums.

So, all I can see is the amount of complaints in the official forums, and meanwhile the amount of complaints is relatively small compared to the "non-complaints", they have one distinct characteristic: These posts are very, very much detailed than all other posts. Some of the complaining posts look like small, almost serious, reviews, very detailed, to a grade I don't think I would have the nerve for it.

Dhruin said:

You'll have to spell it out to me, sorry. I played it twice, siding with each of the two main factions in turn. What's the "feel good" ending?

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Maybe i didnt get far in the game, but i got up to the vampires in town bit. But it seemed to me the game chastised you with a negative ending each time you choose the path that you didnt sleep with the girls. Am i wrong in this?

Damian Mahadevan said:

Maybe i didnt get far in the game, but i got up to the vampires in town bit. But it seemed to me the game chastised you with a negative ending each time you choose the path that you didnt sleep with the girls. Am i wrong in this?

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I think you have totally the wrong end of the stick with a few things there.
Firstly, the quest you are referring to there, "Blue Eyes" is completely a side quest which you don't have to do at all. Secondly, the "good" ending there, comes not because of sleeping with the vampires, but with not killing them. You can actually still get a "good" ending with that quest, without actually sleeping with the vampires, as long as you choose the blue-eyed girl's side against her brother.
The worst ending is killing the vampires and letting the brother take the girl.

All that the game is trying to say there, is that what makes someone a monster, is not what he/she looks like on the outside but what he she is by nature, which is a strong theme in the books, and is also echoed when you have to decide whether to kill Vincent or not (a point you might not even have reached yet, seeing as you are still so early in the game). In fact, you are still so early in the game, that you have not really started seeing the consequences of your choices yet. I really can't see how you can make such sweeping statements about a game you have not played yet.

Let me use an earlier choice in the game as an example: the choice between whether you let Abigail live or not. This has NOTHING to do with whether you sleep with her or not. You can sleep with her and let her die, or not sleep with her and choose to have the mob kill her, or vice versa; - the one choice does not influence the other choice, so I totally disagree with your statement that the "sleeping with the woman choice" is ever the right or wrong choice.
The consequences do not come from whether you sleep with them or not - that aspect is totally irrelevant to the rest of the game, but from whether you choose to let people/"monsters" live or die.

The only "sex"/romance choice that has any bearing later on in the game, is whether you choose Triss or Shani, and that does not influence the outcome of the game, it only influences which one will act as your companion.

Please excuse my double post - the refer to different posts and even different games.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Several people in the German Drakensang community (like me, I admit) were disappointed, because there was too much combat for them and too few riddles.

[snip]
So, considering this, I think I can say that I wouldn't be surprised if German gamers really would prefer more riddles than the rest of the world does.

I'm not sure.

[snip].

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Alrik, you know, when gaming started out, it was actually nice that the genres were so mixed. There was a lot of "adventuring" and riddles in games like Ultima and Quest for Glory; but games have become more and more "dumbed down", as young people with consoles wanting action only are currently dominating the market.

I see that your English is very good, so you have the best of more than one world, the German gaming scene is pretty good, and they also make quite a few adventure games, as many studios from other nationalities do as well.

Although I generally find "Adventure games" (games with mainly riddles and puzzles, and traditionally little to zero combat) generally a bit too slow to my tastes, I do find that I enjoy faster -paced ones like Overclocked for instance.

I very much enjoyed the Frogwares Sherlock Holmes games, and their Dracula Origin, all games in this genre, and I'm planning on playing "Heart of Darkness: In pursuit of Loath Nolder" next, as I rather enjoy horror-ish themes.. (Interestingly, Dracula actually had a lot of riddles and puzzles to solve)
However, there are many other games which are more "pure puzzle" games, with more "logic puzzles" such as the Myst and Aura series. Have you tried any of those out yet?

Anyway, back to topic: considering what you generally get on the RPG market these days, especially in the English-speaking world, I'm already finding that Drakensang has a pleasing amount of puzzles/riddles to my taste, and relatively little combat. So, personally, so far, I am happy.

@RivianWitch: I come, so to say, from the Adventure games genre. This is my "home" in gaming.

Actually, I'm more than pleased that adventure games are oming again. Especially in the German-lkanguage market with dtp as a prominent distributor (also handled Drakensang in Germany).

My personal wish is a mixture between PG and Adventure games. There are a few attempts out there, but they are not going into the directions I wish for.

My personal favourite part in RPGs is the actual role play, plus the character growth.

That combined with an adventure-like environment would seem ideal to me.

The imho funny thing is that REAL role playing in P&P offer sooooo much more of possibilities in gameplay.
Yet developers all over the world just stick to a rather combat-related gameplay.
It's to me as if developers worldwide try to refrain themselves by just picking a few aspects of P&P role play, and that is mainly combat.

Other aspects are relely emphasised, for example riddles. I could very well imagine a group of adventurers invading a fortress of an evil sorcerer, and meanwhile they must proceed - from bottom to the top - they must solve riddles of any kind in order not only to proceed and avoid traps, but also to understand the castle/fortress, its minions, how everything there works and so on.

Stonekeep is - in that respect, quite an example for me (although I must admit that I haven't played too many newer games).

A rather traditional approach worldwiode would be that the adventurers are hacking their ways through the fortress.
Another approach would be to negotiate between (groups of) minions, doing a favour here and there, trying to learn their languages, belief-systems etc. and exploit intrigues. That way would be possible without combat, and well executed it could imho be fascinating and exciting as well. I've seen that in part in Stonekeep.

I think, there is actually a hugehiatus between P&P role play and C-RPG role play.
And everyone tells me that P&P role play couldn't be sold. Or even properly executed via PC.


About my English: Today I have a "good day", so to say, but there are also days where my grammar just sucks.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Several people in the German Drakensang community (like me, I admit) were disappointed, because there was too much combat for them and too few riddles.

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I just finished the game. I wouldn't say I'm "disappointed", although I would have liked less combats specially in the last part of the game. It could have been better, since there are 4 characters in the group, they could have made some puzzles requiring characters doing stuff in different places at the same time, for example, but I still enjoyed the game quite a lot. Could it have been better? definitely, but I wouldn't say I'm disappointed in the game.
Maybe since the first game has been well received (and having less expenses by using the same engine), they can incorporate more 'adventury' elements in the next games. Or they could take the worse but more common approach of making it more 'westernized' and just add full voice-acting, more flashy spells, more eye and hair color options and call it "full character customization" instead of adding anything to the actual gameplay, like puzzles and non-combat options. Hopefully they'll choose the first option.