Middle East News 2

magerette said:

Transcript of Al_Arabiyah Interview

There's a lot more here(3 pages) for those interested in the new adminstration's foreign policy stance.

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He's not giving away too many details in the interview. I am a bit curious about just how many of the regional actors that Mitchell will sit down and listen to, I think that could have serious impact on Obama's first impression across the Arab world. Will he meet non-Fatah Palestinians or the Syrians?

dteowner said:

Quote from magerette's article:

"Tell us a little bit about how do you see your personal role, because, you know, if the President of the United States is not involved, nothing happens -- as the history of peacemaking shows."

That's the interviewer's words.

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Sadly somewhat correct when it comes to Israel/Palestine (with the later failed Oslo accord as a significant exception).

Zaleukos said:

He's not giving away too many details in the interview. I am a bit curious about just how many of the regional actors that Mitchell will sit down and listen to, I think that could have serious impact on Obama's first impression across the Arab world. Will he meet non-Fatah Palestinians or the Syrians?

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He's somewhat nebulous about details as always, but from what I'm getting out of it, if you aren't Al-Quada and don't have a burning US flag wrapped over your suicide vest, he's willing to listen.

For those who may not have read the whole article:

I do think that it is impossible for us to think only in terms of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and not think in terms of what's happening with Syria or Iran or Lebanon or Afghanistan and Pakistan. These things are interrelated...if we are looking at the region as a whole and communicating a message to the Arab world and the Muslim world, that we are ready to initiate a new partnership based on mutual respect and mutual interest, then I think that we can make significant progress.

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and

And so you will I think see our administration be very clear in distinguishing between organizations like al Qaeda -- that espouse violence, espouse terror and act on it -- and people who may disagree with my administration and certain actions, or may have a particular viewpoint in terms of how their countries should develop. We can have legitimate disagreements but still be respectful. I cannot respect terrorist organizations that would kill innocent civilians and we will hunt them down.

But to the broader Muslim world what we are going to be offering is a hand of friendship.

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I'm not really complaining, it wouldnt make sense for a politician to give out a "binding" list of appointments in an interview "Organizations like al Qaeda" could mean almost anything in the context. I am mostly interested in whether Hamas will be dealt with directly (if so it would have to be at a lower level, I dont think the US public would stomach direct contact with those guys in the near term) or just through their Syrian overlords.

Reading what Mitchell have to say about how Irish Peace Accord was accomplished I am sure that he will talk to Hamas but I also think that his opening moves will be indirect rather than direct.

dteowner said:

So, you've got a choice. Become the 600 pound gorilla you claim we are and do things the way you want (we might adapt to your philosophy to join the leadership group, or we might be relegated to the silent followers group), or accept your position in the silent followers group. No shame either way.

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But this assumes that we actually have the option of assuming leadership. As Zaleukos pointed out, even if the lemurs and baboons wanted to take their own path, the road is frequently blocked by that big 600 pound Gorilla. For instance, if a group of countries wishes to achieve an international agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, their efforts are meaningless if the biggest polluters (China, USA etc.) don't play along. Yet those other countries might well be affected by the pollution, so it would be awfully dictatorial to deny them the right to voice their criticisms.
Think of a government. Suppose the Democrats have majority control of the White House, Congress, and the Supreme Court, and they make use of their advantage by enacting policies which run completely counter to Republican ideology. Would you expect the Republicans to become "silent followers" and refrain from voicing their objections?

Of course, complaining, pleading, or suggesting alternatives won't likely have much effect when the power relations between two sides are sufficiently disproportionate. That said, if history teaches us anything, it's that power relations never remain static. Even a 600 pound gorilla will eventually grow old, and if he spent his life trampling all over the place ignoring the complaints of those around him, it likely won't be forgotten when one day the shoe is on the other foot.

Not if, Geist. When.

Indeed. It's been corrected.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090130/ts_csm/ovote

Think this would have happened under a "UN contained" Saddam? Me neither. Maybe, just maybe, we did a little good over there.

No argument from me--provided they don't elect Hammas or something, which doesn't appear to be on the menu, but just reading about all the different districts and ethnic groups made my head spin. Still it sounds like some progress is being made.

dteowner said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090130/ts_csm/ovote

Think this would have happened under a "UN contained" Saddam? Me neither. Maybe, just maybe, we did a little good over there.

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Maybe you did.

But maybe the price you, and especially Iraq, had to pay wasn't really worth it. Maybe.

You know i have been thinking about the whole Israel thing and come to the conclusion that Israel wont be happy until the get Gaza back because they want to rebuild the temple there. They are already planning it!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm

The Institute seeks to disseminate this knowledge, rekindle the desire and yearning for the rebuilding of the Holy Temple, and help to prepare as much as possible for the actual rebuilding.

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Now i dont know how it will happen but i think they may not necessarily get it by brute force.

Damian Mahadevan said:

You know i have been thinking about the whole Israel thing and come to the conclusion that Israel wont be happy until the get Gaza back because they want to rebuild the temple there. They are already planning it!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm



Now i dont know how it will happen but i think they may not necessarily get it by brute force.

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I think you should read a lot more about the issue before making that conclusion, since the most important thing you seem not to realize is that Jerusalem and Mount Moriah aren't even in Gaza.

Pladio said:

I think you should read a lot more about the issue before making that conclusion, since the most important thing you seem not to realize is that Jerusalem and Mount Moriah aren't even in Gaza.

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I heard the original temple was built in Gaza? maybe i got my wires crossed. So can they build the temple now?

Not really since they're supposed to wait for the Messiah and because the Golden Dome Mosque sits on the site where the Temple is supposed to be built.

Apart from that, "Israel" doesn't care about building the Temple, it's mostly the religious Jews.

Pladio said:

Not really since they're supposed to wait for the Messiah and because the Golden Dome Mosque sits on the site where the Temple is supposed to be built.

Apart from that, "Israel" doesn't care about building the Temple, it's mostly the religious Jews.

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They missed the bus; the Messiah came 2000 years ago!!

Well, even you believe he's coming back, so ...

This reminds me of a joke a Mormon once told me:

A subordinate enters the Pope's office and says, "Good news and bad news, your eminence. Christ has returned and is on the phone, asking for you!"

"Hallelujah!" replied the Pope. What possible bad news could there be?"

"He's calling from Salt Lake City."

Squeek said:

This reminds me of a joke a Mormon once told me:

A subordinate enters the Pope's office and says, "Good news and bad news, your eminence. Christ has returned and is on the phone, asking for you!"

"Hallelujah!" replied the Pope. What possible bad news could there be?"

"He's calling from Salt Lake City."

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Don't get it

Pladio said:

Don't get it

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Christ picked the Mormons, not the Pope.

magerette said:

Christ picked the Mormons, not the Pope.

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Doesn't make sense to me, but alright... (i.e. Christ would come back for all who believe in him)


On topic : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Israel considers retaliating strongly and "disproportionately" to militant rockets fired at Israel's border communities.