PC Gamer - Misogyny & Video Gamers

Couchpotato

Part-Time News-bot
Joined
October 1, 2010
Messages
36,073
Location
Spudlandia
While I'm not a white knight of the internet I know when a segment of gamers need a smackdown , and it's right now. So moving on PC gamer has a new article about Anita Sarkeesian being forced out of her house by that small segment of gamers.

Thank you Thrasher for the link to the story.

The latest Tropes vs Women in Video Games video continues the analysis of the objectification of non-playable female characters—this time with an eye to exposing common traits of violence against sexualised NPCs. Depressingly, its release prompted a torrent of misogynistic abuse made against creator Anita Sarkeesian, her family and her supporters. In their attempts to prove that sexism in video gaming isn't a problem, Sarkeesian's harassers posted threats that compelled her to alert authorities and leave her home to stay with friends.
More information.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,073
Location
Spudlandia
I think it's disappointing that, with the stacks of cash her enemies inadvertantly made her, she didn't broaden the focus of her videos a little or, god forbid, give some of the money to people doing more concrete work for women.

She does have some background in what she's talking about — one of her videos name-checked Susan Brownmiller. But it was just a name-check. Most of her viewers are going to have no idea who Susan Brownmiller is, but she didn't bother saying "Susan Brownmiller, author of the seventies feminist classic Against Our Will" or put a link in the doobly-doo, or provide any context at all. It wasn't an attempt to educate, just a call out to people who've read the same books she has.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
1,192
Location
San Francisco
I think it's disappointing that, with the stacks of cash her enemies inadvertantly made her, she didn't broaden the focus of her videos a little or, god forbid, give some of the money to people doing more concrete work for women.

Um, what is your point - that she is to blame, that the threats are justified because she didn't properly spend her YouTube royalties? Or ... ?

Let's be clear - mysogyny in gaming at all levels IS an issue and a problem. Period. In fact, there are some here on these forums.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
14,911
Excuse me -- I didn't realize it was possible I was being that unclear. Obviously the little creeps making death threats are repellent.

If only misogyny were confined to gaming! We'd all just shut down our X-boxes and the world would be great.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
1,192
Location
San Francisco
Well every little bit helps. I hope. Now if only we can convince the supreme court that a woman's right to do what she wants with her body trumps corporations' rights.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
15,679
Location
Studio City, CA
This kind of behavior is why video gaming is still a shameful thing to confess to in the US.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
71
Excuse me — I didn't realize it was possible I was being that unclear. Obviously the little creeps making death threats are repellent.

If only misogyny were confined to gaming! We'd all just shut down our X-boxes and the world would be great.

haha - thanks for clarifying! I wasn't sure that it was a 'yeah all that is true, but also ... ' thing :)
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
14,911
Um, what is your point - that she is to blame, that the threats are justified because she didn't properly spend her YouTube royalties? Or … ?

Let's be clear - mysogyny in gaming at all levels IS an issue and a problem. Period. In fact, there are some here on these forums.

I knew I hated you since the old Dungeon Lords boards and now I'm vindicated.

God damn you're a pussy.
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
89
Nothing justifies stalking and harassment, but there is no denying that something has become very sleazy in how the gaming media brings up these "issues" and what prominence it gives them.

I like this column by Brad Wardell:

http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457277/3_things_that_have_made_gaming_social_media_more_toxic

See also this comment on Slashdot:

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5595675&cid=47775049

Basically, gamers are being bullied for profit by tabloids with low standards like the Gawker group who manufactures scandals and anger to generate clicks.

I think a poster on the escapist forums but it most succinctly: "The gaming community is being bullied for profit".

The gaming community is being singled out for being misogynist, over the film/tv industry, over the music business, over religious groups, because they are a relatively easy target who won't put up as much of a fight. While it's almost certain that Sarkeesian has received threats, let's be honest, they do not carry anywhere near the same weight as those which would come from, say, a religious group who was called out for being conservative. Gamers also lack the PR money to respond, which would be readily available to entertainment companies. Overall, it's a fairly safe group to criticize.

I'm sure that misogyny exists in video games, but no more (and I would argue to a lesser extent) than that seen in general society and other forms of entertainment. Yet Sarkeesian and her backers have launched what amounts to an internet crusade against the most counter-cultural -- and I would argue visibly progressive -- media industries.

Her videos present selectively chosen examples from several video games, purporting to show that games are actually hateful towards women. Many of us have played several of these titles, and can judge how exaggerated such claims are. Indeed, using Sarkeesian's techniques, it would be perfectly possible to go through these games and more, and selectively picks clips and examples "proving" that games and the gaming industry promote animal cruelty.

Yet no-one makes the animal cruelty argument about video games. And the reason is I think obvious -- The misogynist argument makes more money. Sarkeesian has been backed to the tune of $150,000 to makes these videos. Sites like Kotaku generate huge ad-revenue from the inevitable click-bait headlines which follow from these exaggerated claims. The more games who take the bait, who defend their hobby from these accusations, the more revenue goes to the people making and promoting them.

This does not represent a genuine feminist movement. This represents a business model. Gamers are being singled out and bullied -- over religious conservatives, over music video directors, over corporate policies towards women -- because gamers are an easier and more lucrative target. Gamers are "hate-baited" with very, very ugly accusations painting them as haters of women, so that their predictable responses can be farmed out to ad-servers and marketing firms. Bullied; for profit.

I've played video games since 1990; I do not hate women; My hobby does not hate women; The vast majority of people who play video games do not hate women. Please, Sarkeesian's of the world, turn your attentions to the people who do.

The whole scene has simply become very sleazy
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
2,006
Location
Trois-Rivières, Québec
The gaming community is being singled out for being misogynist, over the film/tv industry, over the music business, over religious groups, because they are a relatively easy target who won't put up as much of a fight.

As I said above, I agree that being handed $400K and not taking that as a signal to maybe take a step beyond Zelda is a failure of imagination.

But the gaming community -- and the linked tech community -- aren't just an easy target. We're a key target. These are fields in which the culture of the workplace and the culture of the fan and consumers are closely linked and accountable to each other in a way that goes beyond what you see in other entertainment fields today.

None of this is coming to gaming or tech from the outsides -- this is a dialogue within the community about what our community culture should be.

That means that fan-driven or viral activism can have genuine and self-reinforcing effect -- rather than simply hitting a dead institution with a thud, as would happen if you sent off an angry letter to a movie studio or the like.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
1,192
Location
San Francisco
No one will deny that the gaming community is rife with puerile, immature people who harbor puerile and unhealthy attitudes, ones that are directed toward women more often than not. It however begs the question: why is this issue in particular so important as to be featured constantly in sites like Rock Paper Shotgun and Kotaku, often at points where it seems completely out of the blue and very forced? You don't see for instance the controversy surrounding violence in videogames addressed multiple times a weeks in columns on sites like these.

The answer is that it generates clicks, and feeds the sensationalism that these sites are built upon. It has become a hot button issue, made into a surefire way to generate a lot of backlash, and thus profitable traffic, and people like Anita play into this system for self-promotion. While it certainly doesn't excuse the people who seemingly choose to oppose her not through words but through inflicting sheer terror upon her, nor does it make here responsible for eliciting these threats, it cannot help but being a reminder of the elephant in the room, that is, the media machine which continuously generates artificial debates and turns this into a circus.

To give weight to the view that she favors self-promotion over truly advancing a noble end, one could point out that it doesn't take much effort to simply proclaim one's indignation repeatedly over the Internet. We're not talking about, for example, a volunteer who helps poor destitute women in a soup kitchen, or an African missionary who ministers help to African women; we're talking about mindless entertainment, geared toward a male audience, that doesn't take itself seriously.

As for her critiques herself, many people accuse her critiques of being nitpicky and far fetched, which I've no trouble believing. Take a look at http://i.imgur.com/n5mYWUR.png this picture, which is a critique Anita has made of "gendered traits" valued on television. According to her, men are not depicted in a negative way at all on television. Does this look like a credible person to you?
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
2,006
Location
Trois-Rivières, Québec
Couch and Thrasher, thank you so much for talking about this. ThinkProgress even mentioned her getting death/rape threats just for talking about misogyny in games. It's an issue that needs addressed. Sadly, there are still men that are horrified by the idea of women gaining more comfort and recognition in any medium, but especially video games…

People don't like it "generating clicks" and whatever, but the truth is, the more this issue is brought to light, the more people can choose to be decent, and the more that misogynists will be seen as sh*tty people. Which they are.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
2,789
Location
1920
Does this look like a credible person to you?

Most of her points are either common sense or trivial.

The fact that a woman speaking up to make common sense points is taken as an invitation to harrassment is more significant than the videos themselves.

I'd like to see her take her arguments much further, but that doesn't seem to be what she's about.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
1,192
Location
San Francisco
People don't like it "generating clicks" and whatever, but the truth is, the more this issue is brought to light, the more people can choose to be decent, and the more that misogynists will be seen as sh*tty people. Which they are.
You nailed it with your comment Aubrielle. :thumbsup:

While I may not agree with all sides in every argument there comes a time when bad behavior has to be called out. The things a segment of gamers is doing is shameful.

Some of them sound like they never left grammar school, or have no idea how the real world works nowadays. A generation of man-childs it seems..:disappointed:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,073
Location
Spudlandia
You nailed it with your comment Aubrielle. :thumbsup:

While I may not agree with all sides in every argument there comes a time when bad behavior has to called out. The things a segment of gamers is doing is shameful.

Some of them sound like they never left grammar school, or have no idea how the real world works nowadays. A generation of man-childs it seems..:disappointed:

Yeah, I think their thought process is extremely simple. They like violent / possibly sexist video games, so when someone criticizes said video games, they interpret that as a push to censor / ban these types of games… and when a child perceives someone trying to take away their toy, they are going to get angry and lash out.

The most frequent criticism I see leveled against Anita is that people are constantly accusing her of not actually playing or liking video games (which I guess would give her an unfair bias against the medium). Now, unless she has actually admitted this, how could anyone on the internets possibly know that? I will grant that she does seem to come across as sort of an outsider of the gaming world in her videos, but that could just be her attempt to appear to have journalistic objectivity or whatever. The videos don't really go into as much as depth as they probably should and arguably some of the content shown isn't put in proper context (e.g., the scene from Dragon Age: Origins clearly depicts the soldiers in a very negative light / it isn't glamorizing the violence as some of the other games shown might be)… But even though the videos aren't that great, they still draw attention to a real problem.
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
2,296
Location
PA
http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/

This is the best summation I have yet to read about this ordeal.

When it was Jack Thompson who was receiving death threats for combating violence in video games, it was met with derision by the video game media. The same media now claiming the moral high ground and featuring news stories about Anita Sarkeesian… and articles about the "hottest cosplays" and the latest moe game, along with banner ads for a game prominently featuring female bodies in suggestive poses in the same page. She is painted as a victim because it suits the agenda they purport to have, while another moral crusader like Jack Thompson didn't.

This is not that Anita is a woman who attempts to speak her opinion that people oppose. This is that she has a clique of Internet journalists blindly standing by everything she says, and intimidating any critics into silence by brandishing the specter of misogyny.

Also while I don't agree many of the portrayals of female characters in videogames, people like Anita are adament that portrayals of female princesses like Peach or Zelda in video games are spreading terribly harmful stereotypes which are gravely affecting society, however the same people who agree with it think that violent games like Grand Theft Auto have no effect at all on people. Which is it, do games alter people's behavior or not? You can't have it both ways.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
2,006
Location
Trois-Rivières, Québec
Jack Thompson was a troll lawsuit lawyer who after years of wasting money, and losing every case he tried finally got disbarred, and he deserved it.

Now to clarify I don't care if Anita is right or wrong. I'm just ashamed of the segment of gamers, and about how they go about expressing there opinions.

You don't win using the tactics they use. It's just immature.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,073
Location
Spudlandia
The gaming community is being singled out for being misogynist, over the film/tv industry, over the music business, over religious groups, because they are a relatively easy target who won't put up as much of a fight.
The gaming community is pointed out because they are worse apart from some religious communities (which are targeted much more violently than the gaming communauty)

It is all about story and representation by the way so the gaming community is a misnamer. Proper name should be the community that practise gaming while looking for story over gameplay.

People who value gameplay over story do not give a hoot about the look of the avatar, avatar might be everything as they relate first to the gameplay and do not want to feel represented in the game.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
6,265
Frankly I don't like her and the one (must have been her first ? Something about damsels in distress in Video games) video I watched of her was so full of bullocks I so far refused to give her any more views from me.

Death threats are over the top. Sadly nothing special in the perceived anonimity of the internets though.
They happen over all kinds of silly things, like say Items in WoW……………not just to women.
It's also not just the gaming industry.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
226
Back
Top Bottom