PC gaming's future

You're not making any sense whatsoever.

Sorry he makes perfect sense. It will never hurt to know more than one single language, ever. The more ways of communicating ideas the better.

It is surprising how easy it is for children to learn more than one language. Like I just said, it's about par for course over here that people know at least 2 languages and more often than not 3. Even if they don't speak English, they have been taught it when they were children.

Edit: They're taught Chinese of course and they pick up Taiwanese from their parents and their friends. I keep asking my girlfriend, how did she learn Taiwanese and everytime she just replies I picked it up on my own. Amazing how much we can truly learn when we are young.
 
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What I don't understand is why people think their cultural history will disappear because they change languages.

An IT person once said to the news of languages dying out: "Yes, but the information is preserved."

I don't think so. I haven't read Wittgenstein, but what I know from him is that meanings are preserved in specific languages. You can write down pghilosophy only with a certain set of words - which include only a certain set of meanings.

The problem comes in if you've tried to translate something yourself.

I did, I tried it, by translatuing a few short stories of mine into English, and once from English into German.

I do know that my set of English words isn't perfect at all. If I'd live severa decades in the UK or the US I'd surely have a much bigger set of words in my mind, which would mean I wouldn't be as limited in my translations as I'm nowadays.

The problem begins with what I know as "idioms". How do you translate idioms ? You can't. You most likely have to use a different idiom in the target language in order to preserve the meaning which was contained in the original idiom. And, yoiu've got to try to chose the *right* idiom in the target language.
"Out of the frying pan into the fire" is just a simple example of that. In the German language, for example, it is like this: "Vom Regen in die Traufe". It contains rain as the main metaphor, and even most German people won't recognise the word "Traufe" as a part of a building.
Here, for example, a direct translation wouldn't transport the desired meaning. Instead, I've got to chose another, similar thing from a known set of meanings embedded in a certain language.

Same goes for other words. My favourite example is the German word "Geist", which has several meanings in the English language - depending on the context, but for the same thing there exist only very few words in the German language. I would have to translate "wraith" as "Geist", too, for example. A "phantom" is a "phantom" in German language as well, but a "spirit" is also a "Geist". A thing like a Banshee doesn't even exist in German language ! Like a Kelpie as well. On the other hand, the English Language has no Klabautermann, I think.

Even wose is to try to transport very, very subtle things into another language. Feelings, for example. This is the field i had most problems with while translating.
Because feelings are no "information still preserved", but instead they are what they are : Feelings. Emotions. There are even emotions in languages other languages have no word for !

THe English variant of the German word "Angst", for example, doesn't transport the German meaning of "Angst" at all, if I understood this correctly. It is a German word, which has wandered into the English language, and received a change of meaning there. Now, how do I translate the English "Angst" back into German ? I'd have to use several words for the same feeling, I guess.

I heard that really *professional* translators are capable of translating even so subtle things, but I can't say. I can only argue from my own perspective, and that is that I do sense a difference in German and in English languages.

And THEN you have thousands of other languages, too ... The far worst thing that can happen is when you translate something into one language, and from there into another one ... The end result can become quite distorted. Maybe that was what happened with several Maya Codices.
 
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It is surprising how easy it is for children to learn more than one language. Like I just said, it's about par for course over here that people know at least 2 languages and more often than not 3. Even if they don't speak English, they have been taught it when they were children.

Yes it is. Children do learn other languages faster and better than adults. I think I have even read a scientific comment or study about that somewhere.
 
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Language is also part of people's identity. Norway was in union with Denmark for more than 400 years until 1814. After the divorce, establishing Norwegian as a language separate from Danish, became very important. One of the two written forms of the Norwegian language (Nynorsk) was created directly as an alternative to Danish. And the other form, Bokmål is often referenced as "Danish Norwegian" by users of Nynorsk. AS a user of Bokmål I don't agree with that.

Language is often used as a mean of oppression. The Sami people in Norway were at the beginning of the last century not allowed to use their own language in for excample schools. And as far as I know, Kurds are still not allowed to use their own language in Turkey.

I've heard (but I don't know for sure - PJ, please correct me) that the Finnish speaking in Finland are often reluctant to use Swedish, even if they know the language. I would assume that this is a reaction to Swedish rule from 1249 to 1809.
 
Imagine if we all learned the same language - and we all spent hundreds of years perfecting our skill with this language.

Don't you see that the language by itself is nothing but a way of expressing our thoughts - but that our thoughts are the source, and not the language. If we have one language globally, then our thoughts would have a much easier time transcending the barrier.

It's a system - nothing more. It has nothing to do with culture, it's just the same thing developing in different directions.

We wouldn't need translators at all.
 
Maybe it doesn't have to be more. But to a whole lot of people their language is far more than just a means of communication. So I think we're very far from achieving one global language.

And besides, if we ever achieved that, we have no guarantee that it would stay that way, because language change, and not uniformly. There were periods in the history of the nordic languages when changes occured so rapidly that people living 150 years apart would have serous trouble understanding each other, if they could communicate (and no, I'm not referring to the articulation difficulties you would expect in a skeleton or a zombie). A writing form does dampen changes, but it won't prevent it.

BTW, this is a very interesting subject, but perhaps we should transfer the discussion to a separate thread?
 
I've heard (but I don't know for sure - PJ, please correct me) that the Finnish speaking in Finland are often reluctant to use Swedish, even if they know the language. I would assume that this is a reaction to Swedish rule from 1249 to 1809.
Its like this: Swedish speaking finns refuse to learn finnish at all and finnish speaking people speak so bad swedish that there is no point in using it since both parties always speak good english.

When I speak with swedes I always use english. I could use swedish too but it would be a very "limited" discussion.

It mostly depends on how much usage the language gets. Where I live nobody ever speaks swedish so it gets very rusty. Those who live in the sw coast get to use it more often so they actually develop a reasonable skill in it and thus many in those areas do speak it.
 
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Its like this: Swedish speaking finns refuse to learn finnish at all and finnish speaking people speak so bad swedish that there is no point in using it since both parties always speak good english.

When I speak with swedes I always use english. I could use swedish too but it would be a very "limited" discussion.

It mostly depends on how much usage the language gets. Where I live nobody ever speaks swedish so it gets very rusty. Those who live in the sw coast get to use it more often so they actually develop a reasonable skill in it and thus many in those areas do speak it.

Thanks for the explanation.
 
I just had propably my last useless debate about piracy today. Everybody everywhere is for it and I dont want to waste anymore of time debating against it, so Im gonna accept it.

And as such Im giving up on buying all pc games where possible from this day.
 
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I just had propably my last useless debate about piracy today. Everybody everywhere is for it and I dont want to waste anymore of time debating against it, so Im gonna accept it.

And as such Im giving up on buying all pc games where possible from this day.

You have very selective reading then if you think that everyone is for it.

When did we mention anything about piracy here? Last time I checked this thread's topic had transformed into a debate about languages or are we changing the topic to PC gamings future "Piracy will end be the end of PC' games" Of course there is the topic PC gaming's future "The horde will dumb it down to nonexistance" then there is "Consoles will replace PCs". That's all I can think of right now with a doom and gloom aproach to PC games. So now we are going with option one "Piracy will be the end of PC games"?
 
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You have very selective reading then if you think that everyone is for it.
Not everyone but most.
When did we mention anything about piracy here? Last time I checked this thread's topic had transformed into a debate about languages or are we changing the topic to PC gamings future "Piracy will end be the end of PC' games" O
To me piracy and future of pc gaming is one and the same. We should simply embrace it.

Anyways I just want to stop wasting time on these useless debates and Im not going to start one with you - this is more like just an opinnion/statement. Feel free to continue the discussion about languages.
 
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Let me just remind you that here, ANY support for the idea that piracy should be embraced is grounds for being BANNED. This site takes a VERY strong stance against Piracy!!
 
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Not everyone but most.

Are you talking about people here at rpgwatch? Because if you are, you are seriously insane. Every single thread I've seen that has been about piracy, transformed into piracy or just mentioned it off topic has always had one or two nutcases trying their usual "Demo the game before you buy" excuse or similiarly lamed excuses for piracy. The rest are either calling those people idiots or trying (in vain) to show them the error of their ways.

Now if you're talking about people at other sites, then maybe you shouldn't go to that site anymore. People who promote getting something for nothing are thieves anyway you look at it. They should accept it. Instead of trying to justify what they do as something reasonable.

That's my two cents worth. I've said this opinion many times before. I really should just write one stump speech about piracy to cut and paste each time I see a new thread about it.
 
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IMO the old games (1994) had their good parts. But so do the 2008 (and present) games have their good parts. It's just different. Of course that someone who looks more at the story and feeling of the game will probably incline to the older games while the 'new gamers' won't even play it if it doesn't have good graphics. That doesn't mean that now, you can't have good story based games. Those are just fewer because, as stated before, it is much harder to make games today because it implies more time.

Developers can't release games with outdated graphics even if the story is superb, because they will not maximize profits. For example, many of my friends got Assassins Creed because of the super duper graphics, but they won't even look at a classic game like Baldur's gate or even Gothic or Dungeon Siege etc (you name the game).

Sorry for my English if there are any mistakes... I am kind of in a hurry :)
 
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...

Developers can't release games with outdated graphics even if the story is superb, because they will not maximize profits. For example, many of my friends got Assassins Creed because of the super duper graphics, but they won't even look at a classic game like Baldur's gate or even Gothic or Dungeon Siege etc (you name the game).
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I'm not sure I agree here. World of Wacraft has rather simple graphics compared other games.
 
Yes but it is kind of an exception... WoW is based on very much lore, lore that has been made popular through the Warcraft games before. And it is a MMO.

Oh... and I was talking about slightly older graphics.
 
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The World would be a better place if we all spoke the same language, less confusion, better communication between nations, and at last, more of a 'one world' feeling. This doesn'tmean other languages have to die out,mbut to get to that better world qucikly, English is the quickest way there. Whoever mentioned China didn'tsay that while many Chinese are desperate to learn English, there are not many in other countries desperate to learn Chinese. If youn add all the countries up where English is the first and second language you have a good 70% of the world's population already there. The other 30% will get there in a couple of generations, so in 50 years or so, the start of the 'one world language' will begin, and while I will be on my last legs in 50 years, I hope to see this start, for the benefits to humanity will be immense when all meetings at all levels are conducted by groups of men and women conversant in the same language fluently.

I am sorry for anyone thinking that what I am saying is somehow racist, or that i am saying other language and cultures will die, because I don't believe that at all. If that we're the case Scotland Wales and Northern Island would not even still have accents and for example a small nation like Wales would not have a vibrant local language and culture. So culture or other languages won't die, but the world will move forward immensely when it speaks the same language fluently.

I just wish I could hope the same for PC gaming, which I think, in terms of AAA PC only games is already dead, and in terms of console 'conversioned' AAA titles soon to be (a year or two) and once they've gone, indie will struggle due to lack of PC gaming media to give them coverage, giving them another year, so in maybe three years it could, to all intents and purposes, be over..... And I will be sobbing at that despite believing that's what I believe is going to happen.
 
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Oh and the graphics talk - well, we now have a perfect example to use: Mount and Blade!

Practically every reviewer has downscored the game because the the 'antiquated' graphics, many gamers have posted messages more or less saying 'if this had Oblivion type graphics, it would be brilliant!' and yet what everyone of those (and they are in the majority! Gulp!) did not think (and this especially goes for the reviewers and editors of those reviewers!) was 'how can you have a 3D battle of 200+ horsemen and foot soldiers with Oblivion graphics on any home PC however uber it is!

So when any company says 'let's put more actions on screen and downgrade the graphics a little to do it' they are going to say 'we can't - look at what they said about Mount and Blade!'.

So graphics have become so important now even a game that had a design of having huge 200+ man battles in 3D cannot lower the graphics to enable that without reviewers and gamers complaining! Stupidity abounds therefore, and that's yet another reason why PC gaming is going to go the way of the Dodo!
 
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