Diablo 3 - The Road to Hell @ GameBanshee

GameBanshee's Eric Schwarz has penned an article titled Diablo III and The Road to Hell, questioning a number of the design and implementation decisions. The value proposition, online-only and changes since Diablo 1 are discussed:

From a gamer's perspective, especially in this tougher economic time, in terms of its raw value proposition... the simple fact is that Diablo III begins to look like a classic case of paying a premium price for a name brand, when the competition is bringing just as much if not more to the table, all for a much more reasonable price. I don't presume to speak for all gamers, but when I look at both games and then weigh the asking prices of each, it's hard not to feel Diablo III simply doesn't provide the same level of value - even were Torchlight II twice as much money, it'd still likely look like a better deal. In the end, you're paying for that Diablo image and entrance to its user community, but not necessarily much else.

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More information.

This article reflects my sentiments on Diablo 3, it's a very good read.

The game itself looks like it could be fun, but I won't be buying it until it's single player campaign is available offline. I might just get the free to play version as well.

With Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn just around the corner, Diablo 3 is not a high priority.

I'm not expecting to see a complete "free to play" version anytime soon, but we'll see. I suspect that they will be doing frequent game updates, after release, as well, which would muddy the waters further.

Torchlight this, Torchlight that.. everyone who has a chip on their shoulder about Diablo's DRM or auction house cant stop spewing on and on about Torchlight.

Beyond the obvious threat of Torchlight II, there are a lot of other games out there that look hungry to take the action-RPG crown away from Diablo.

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The threat? This writer can honestly put down in writing (er typing) that Torchlight 2 is a threat to Diablo 3? Yeah, Blizzard is shaking in their boots. Just like the sea of RTS out there were a big threat to Starcraft, which as retro-style and minimalist in comparison to a lot of newer games yet still sold like crazy and was a success.

xSamhainx said:

Torchlight this, Torchlight that.. everyone who has a chip on their shoulder about Diablo's DRM or auction house cant stop spewing on and on about Torchlight.

The threat? This writer can honestly put down in writing (er typing) that Torchlight 2 is a threat to Diablo 3? Yeah, Blizzard is shaking in their boots. Just like the sea of RTS out there were a big threat to Starcraft, which as retro-style and minimalist in comparison to a lot of newer games yet still sold like crazy and was a success.

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I think by now we all know you support blizzard and that's fine but you have to accept others do not. I cant fault you for speaking the truth millions of people will buy the game based on brand loyalty.

A respectable piece, I find.

I'm honestly surprised.

Torchlight is good, but only lasts a short time. Easy to get bored with it. Diablo games can be played for years without losing interest, especially if you get into hardcore mode.

I'll play and enjoy both, but I expect Torchlight 2 to be a very shortlived experience for me, and Diablo 3 has the potential to last a very, very long time.

Blizzard may be many things, but they tend to put more effort into the core gameplay than the vast majority of developers out there.

I'd have expected similar things from Torchlight 2 - if it wasn't for the first game. Flagship Studios seemed to understand the genre better than most, but what Runic did with Torchlight was not a good sign of them wanting to bother with actually evolving the genre in any way whatsoever.

I'm getting a similar vibe from TL2. It doesn't seem to even attempt to do anything new with the genre - and I'm not a big fan of the visual aesthetic.

DArtagnan said:

I'll play and enjoy both, but I expect Torchlight 2 to be a very shortlived experience for me, and Diablo 3 has the potential to last a very, very long time.

Blizzard may be many things, but they tend to put more effort into the core gameplay than the vast majority of developers out there.

I'd have expected similar things from Torchlight 2 - if it wasn't for the first game. Flagship Studios seemed to understand the genre better than most, but what Runic did with Torchlight was not a good sign of them wanting to bother with actually evolving the genre in any way whatsoever.

I'm getting a similar vibe from TL2. It doesn't seem to even attempt to do anything new with the genre - and I'm not a big fan of the visual aesthetic.

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What would you say looks innovative or evolutionary in DIII? (Honest question, I 'm not following either of these games)

GhanBuriGhan said:

What would you say looks innovative or evolutionary in DIII? (Honest question, I 'm not following either of these games)

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1. RMAH

Perhaps the biggest innovation (in this genre) is the real-money auction house. Whatever you may think of it, it has the potential to change the genre entirely. I'm personally excited about the prospect of earning som cash by playing the game I'm likely to enjoy. It's not that I care all that much about the money, but I'm really curious about how human beings will respond to such a market - and I have a feeling that the potential for a real income is not entirely utopian. If nothing else, it might be the first step to actually making a living by doing things you enjoy.

So it's sort of a "meta-game interest" as I'm curious based on my interest in human psychology and the societal impact of such a thing.

2. Rune system.

The biggest gameplay innovation that I can see - and it IS quite big. The amount of combinations is staggering, and the fact that they change the skills in question in a way that makes them work so differently and LOOK so differently - means it has the potential to be the most intricate and complex character system in an action RPG as of yet.

3. Inferno difficulty

One of the biggest issues of the past action RPGs, have always been that you'd reach a point where even the highest difficulty was trivial - and you "outgrew" content in a way that made progress with any one character rather pointless. This Inferno mode should ensure a significantly longer lifetime for any one character, which is important to me - seeing as I'm generally the sort of person to focus on only one, or very few characters.

4. Dynamic quests

I don't expect too much from these, but Bliz have promised that quests will change for each playthrough - and even if it's just a little, it should help the game maintain even more longevity than the previous Diablo games. I certainly think it's a step in the right direction.

5. Destructible environments

Another thing I haven't seen to this scale in an action RPG. I certainly can't remember it. But I like that you can use the environment to your advantage, and it does help giving the game that extra adrenaline kick - when you see your surroundings crumble under your might

Those are what I consider evolutionary (RMAH is more of a revolution in terms of how they're doing it, and how much of an impact Diablo 3 is likely to make - being a Bliz game and all after WoW).

Thanks! 2, 4, and 5 sound quite interesting to me as well. 1 and 3 wouldn't really affect me, as I would never become hardcore enough at playing the game to profit (nor would I be interested in purchasing game assets with real money), but I can see your points.

Diablo 3 is impressive not by itself but by the inovations it will introduce that will make this game more of a "addiction drug" than a game:

a) Real life auction house
b) Online gameplay with random dungeons
c) A lot of dificulty levels !


This 3 poins alone will almoust sell the game right away for the milions of blizzard fans.


Torchlight 2 (and other games) might even be better gameplay-wise or story-wise or production-value-wise or even fun-wise, but the real money auction house will completely revolutionize the market. Some people might hate it but when people sell their first item for as little as 1 dollar, they will keep coming back, and back and back... and if they once have the luck to sell something for over 10 dollars they will never leave again...

As of the open beta, you can't pause the game when playing alone, which I think most who have hectic schedules, or families to take care of, will agree is a glaring omission.

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This is the second time that the "cannot pause during playing" thing is reported.

I find this disturbing.

I bought into the SCII hype and paid top dollar for the game. And regret it.

Say what you will about ye Olde Blizzard, the fact is that very few of the same designers are behind the wheel. You *are* paying a premium for the name and I, for one, won't foolishly go along with it a second time. I'll wait for [real] reviews.

Every time I think about picking up SCII I just look at the price and then get something else. Don't know how much it is elsewhere, but here it's ridiculously high.

skavenhorde said:

Every time I think about picking up SCII I just look at the price and then get something else. Don't know how much it is elsewhere, but here it's ridiculously high.

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In the UK it actually crept up in price. It was cheapest during pre-order, then rose on release. Worth every penny IMHO though, despite being another £5 ontop of other games.

On the other hand, Diablo 3 is a whole £10 cheaper than most new games (or was when I pre-ordered), so that's looking like a bargain.

Regarding the RMAH, one has to ask Why wasn't this done years and years ago? I always thought what was holding developers back was the taxation issue. No government in the world lets goods be sold on its turf without getting a cut. A player getting real money for time spent in game must have that income tracked and taxed (at least that is the view of governments worldwide). Blizzard has made no mention of this tiny detail.

screeg said:

Regarding the RMAH, one has to ask Why wasn't this done years and years ago? I always thought what was holding developers back was the taxation issue. No government in the world lets goods be sold on its turf without getting a cut. A player getting real money for time spent in game must have that income tracked and taxed (at least that is the view of governments worldwide). Blizzard has made no mention of this tiny detail.

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In the UK that'd be entirely down to the players to organise/report correctly. Same as Ebay.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

This is the second time that the "cannot pause during playing" thing is reported.

I find this disturbing.

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As a noob to MMOs, I found out that one cannot pause DDO as well.

So D3 has become an MMO, technically ? I wondered.

screeg said:

Regarding the RMAH, one has to ask Why wasn't this done years and years ago? I always thought what was holding developers back was the taxation issue. No government in the world lets goods be sold on its turf without getting a cut. A player getting real money for time spent in game must have that income tracked and taxed (at least that is the view of governments worldwide). Blizzard has made no mention of this tiny detail.

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I think here we have a set limit that is considered a trivial or irregular income and which is legal not to report for taxation, this covers small scale ebay trading, and would probably conver earing money through DIII as well. I am not sure what the exact limit is. But if you are making a regular and substantial income from it, then yes, you would have to report it as independent work in your income tax declaration.