Dragon Age - Review @ GameBanshee

MasterKromm said:

Though, for arguments sake, let us assume that the her offer is refused and one of the grey wardens dies… You still find out that a woman matching Morrigan's description is heavy with child.

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That's only if The Warden had sex with Morrigan during the game (not necessarily the night before the battle).

I think Flemeth sent Morrigan with Warden so she could get the old god's essence, but then Morrigan decided she wanted the essence for herself, so she made The Warden kill Flemeth.

Anderson said:

I could only assume something very bad happened to Loghain between the novel and the game.

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Maybe he became power hungry once he felt how it was like to be a general in a non-occupied country. Or was he a general in a novel as well?

Malk said:

Maybe he became power hungry once he felt how it was like to be a general in a non-occupied country. Or was he a general in a novel as well?

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I suppose that's a good explanation. He was promoted to General near the end of the book, if I recall correctly. "Power corrupts."

He was the most heroic figure in the novel. I found myself liking and admiring him more than any of the other characters. So it was very weird to have him be a despicable villain I had to oppose in the game. I don't think I ever got past it. I wonder if I would've enjoyed DA's story more, if I had not read the prequel novel.

Malk said:

That's only if The Warden had sex with Morrigan during the game (not necessarily the night before the battle).

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Are you sure? I could have sworn Morrigan ends up prego regardless…

Malk said:

I think Flemeth sent Morrigan with Warden so she could get the old god's essence, but then Morrigan decided she wanted the essence for herself, so she made The Warden kill Flemeth.

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I believe that was the case, however I gave it my own spin. Only time will tell, but I hope Bioware implements some sort twist/spin. Your take is too… cut and dry(no offense).

Anderson said:

He was the most heroic figure in the novel. I found myself liking and admiring him more than any of the other characters. So it was very weird to have him be a despicable villain I had to oppose in the game.

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No kidding, Ive thought that was really odd. Loghain is this heroic, dare I say at times noble character in the book. Of all people to make the nemesis!

Well, he wasn't too noble towards the end of the book..

Maylander said:

Well, he wasn't too noble towards the end of the book..

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He wasn't? What happened? I don't recall. I admit I sort of blew through that book, like I do most novels based on games. Guess I missed something.

MasterKromm said:

Are you sure? I could have sworn Morrigan ends up prego regardless…

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Pretty sure.

I believe that was the case, however I gave it my own spin. Only time will tell, but I hope Bioware implements some sort twist/spin. Your take is too… cut and dry(no offense).

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None taken, but I think it's the most likely outcome.. There'll definitely be a twist regarding Morrigan and Flemeth, and I'm positive Duncan is alive (you never see him actually die and you don't find his body in Ostagar.. it's also strange how no one wants to bury him, I think he's more important to Alistair than the king was).

Malk said:

Pretty sure.

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I only played the game once but I still wanted to know how the endings differed. I can't seem to find the forum where the endings were listed, but IIRC Morrigan's was the only ending that could not be affected in any way whatsoever. Even if she does not have sex with the hero or Alistair she is still pregnant. It's a dead giveaway that she/Flemeth will play some future role in a later title.

Sorry, I often take to tangential discussion…

I could not romance lelaina(SP?) for one simple reason. RPing a mage who had grown up in the tower, most likely with minimal intimate female interaction(IIRC the apprentices live in a giant room filled with bunk beds) left me little desire to "settle" for a career whore(if you take the time to talk to her or listen to her intermittent random ramblings it becomes obvious that on the slut Richter scale she's at least an 8 - remember the Richter scale is logarithmic ). Thus for me anyway, dating the Apostate/Maleficarum was the only real meaningful RP choice when playing a mage. So my question, did anyone romance Lelaina? If so, what was your take?

None taken, but I think it's the most likely outcome.. There'll definitely be a twist regarding Morrigan and Flemeth, and I'm positive Duncan is alive (you never see him actually die and you don't find his body in Ostagar.. it's also strange how no one wants to bury him, I think he's more important to Alistair than the king was).

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This was supposed to dark fantasy… Morrigan's betrayal at the end was the only thing remotely "dark" well you could also argue Alistair sacrificing himself(as if I would sacrifice myself ).

I think you're partially right about Duncan, my only hope is that he's been taken hostage or better yet in a cruel twist of bitter irony somehow converted/turned into a bad arse dark spawn general.

-EDIT-

Oh and for the record I was one of those people who, despite enjoying DA:O, voted it most disappointing game of 09… I might expound on why in a separate thread.

Dhruin said:

I've seen the Deep Roads complaint a few times. Oddly, I found it one of the most compelling parts of the game. I found some tension in the idea of being deep underground, in the heart of the darkspawn, and I really enjoyed the associated stories (I've gone blank on the name of Oghren's wife).

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Oh almost missed this post somehow. Yes, I agree, the storylines there are great, from Shale's history to Paragon Branka's tale (though that's not particularly strong) to the secret you uncover there and the choice offered to you (one of the stronger ones of Dragon Age: Origins).

It's just that the actual gameplay is all filler combat. It's not as bad the entire Urn quest, which is just an orgy of filler combat, but it's bad. I really think DA:O would have been much better with more focused, challenging fights, and not all this filler.

MasterKromm said:

I only played the game once but I still wanted to know how the endings differed. I can't seem to find the forum where the endings were listed, but IIRC Morrigan's was the only ending that could not be affected in any way whatsoever. Even if she does not have sex with the hero or Alistair she is still pregnant.

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It says here:

Morrigan leaves the party the night before the final battle when the Warden refuses her offer. She is later seen traveling through the Frostback Mountains alone. Several years later, tales out of Orlais said that a strange dark-haired mage had insinuated herself within the empress's court .(Male PC must not engage in romance with Morrigan for this to trigger).

Other epilogues are also interesting, spent half an hour reading yesterday..

So my question, did anyone romance Lelaina? If so, what was your take?

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I did. It was nice at first, but then she got an idea that we were in a serious relationship, she started acting all creepy (even sang me an opera), so I had to break up. I tried hitting on Morrigan after that, but that didn't work out well 'cause ''we're just friends.''

I need a hug.

Malk said:

It says here:

Morrigan leaves the party the night before the final battle when the Warden refuses her offer. She is later seen traveling through the Frostback Mountains alone. Several years later, tales out of Orlais said that a strange dark-haired mage had insinuated herself within the empress's court .(Male PC must not engage in romance with Morrigan for this to trigger).

Other epilogues are also interesting, spent half an hour reading yesterday..

I did. It was nice at first, but then she got an idea that we were in a serious relationship, she started acting all creepy (even sang me an opera), so I had to break up. I tried hitting on Morrigan after that, but that didn't work out well 'cause ''we're just friends.''

I need a hug.

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Thanks! I hadn't seen that as I played DA:O some time ago… Oh well there goes my theory.

She sang you an opera?!? If there has ever been a better reason to break up with a chick I have yet to see it...

MasterKromm said:

She sang you an opera?!? If there has ever been a better reason to break up with a chick I have yet to see it…

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I thought she always sang this song after visiting the Elves? You might need a positive opinion for it, I guess.

Also note that song is one of quite a few big misses in Dragon Age's soundtrack, and one of the reasons DA:O was kept from best music/sound in our GotY awards (the terrible female voice acting for many major roles was another), and the presentation of the song just makes it worse. These moments when Dragon Age was just painfully trying too hard are such a big mark against the game's story.

I think that moment was actually the worst.. It's either that or when everyone start shouting ''FOR FERELDEN!!!'' at battle for Ostagar. Makes me wanna puke.

She sang me that song, and I didn't romance her. I guess I'm a sap, but I kind of liked it. No one ever sang me a song in an RPG before.

I considered the song a nice touch and liked it for the idea itself.
The execution and the song itself … not so much.
The song in Mass Effect 2, on the other hand, was implemented flawlessly imo.

Brother None said:

I thought she always sang this song after visiting the Elves? You might need a positive opinion for it, I guess.

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I'm fairly certain I did not get that song, but I sided with the werewolves(absolutely loathed the Dalish; too Tolkienesque with respect to their superior age, grace, beauty, sense of naturism *yawn* ect yet what's worse they were somehow "quickened" by their introduction to humanity. Their constant use of the victim card didn't help either - Lanaya*SP?* asking if humans regret what they did to the elves really annoyed me.) and my approval with her at the time was right around 0. So maybe you're right about approval/opinion playing a role?

@ DeepO,

I agree, Mordin's song and it's implementation were great.

holeraw said:

…Irenicus…
- He keeps claiming that he could effortlessly kill me but him refusing to take the -apparently insignificant- time to do so even after I've proven to be a threat again and again and it's obvious that I'm not going to stop, makes him very unsatisfying to deal with - I mean, telling me that he's extremely powerful and then having him teleporting away a few times after I beat him and having me hunt him down like a dog for the entire game is debunking.

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You explain very well why BG2 story is totally ridiculous for me, thanks to save me the effort.

I'd like add that the BG2 effort to picture horror are totally failed and felt into ridiculous increasing more the negative picture of the whole story.

DeepO said:

I considered the song a nice touch and liked it for the idea itself.
The execution and the song itself … not so much...

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Well put, but not fully, one point is very badly done this is the mouth synchronization. But other stuff is quite well done, the song, the singing, the scenery, the companions reaction.

If the realization was so bad it could not have an effect and obviously it had an effect on some people, like me.

The idea itself is hardly enough in this case to generate an effect and the mouth synchronization is a detail that myself I look at as a localization problem. It's like spelling mistakes in a text, some people can go ever it and enjoy the text and some other can't.

enough to have a strong effect on those that can go over

Anderson said:

...
He was the most heroic figure in the novel. I found myself liking and admiring him more than any of the other characters. So it was very weird to have him be a despicable villain I had to oppose in the game. I don't think I ever got past it. I wonder if I would've enjoyed DA's story more, if I had not read the prequel novel.

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Interesting, a hero that becomes a villain, my memory seems vanish a little and I can't remember novel series using the trick. I remember some with a secondary hero falling in corruption or something, but not up to make him the villain.

There's two points here, the first is the series point of view, it's a quite stupid writing to keep unexplained such a dramatic evolution.

The second point is that I don't mean that everything need to be explained and if fact the reverse is true for a good series. But for such a key element this require a lot of cautious and development. If it's something that will not be explained and will in the future then for such important element the story needs highlight it.

DAO does it but that's quite minimal and relatively hidden, in few words, not well done. The introduction of DLC RTO is a good example of what should have been done and wasn't in DAO. In DAO you know from few dialogs that he was THE hero, that he has changed a lot, but that's all, all the game concentrate on making him an unpleasant weird character ready to everything probably for power, when it should have been quite more subtle with such good base.

I haven't read any of the DA:O published literature. However, from my in game experience I came away feeling as though his actions were understandable. They jive with someone who is intensely paranoid(as a real life example look at the guy who crashed a plane into the IRS - many never knew that an all consuming anti-tax anti-big government side of him existed). Also worth noting, I got the distinct impression that Howe manipulated Loghain - after all preying on his intense paranoia would have been easy.

Though I could be wrong. I sort of liked Loghain as a villain, I grow tired of the stereotypical bad guys. They're always less of a threat than the man/woman who is fueled by misguided intentions and conviction(think Spanish inquisition, Crusades ect).