Skyrim Desslock vs. Skyrim Basher

[Lame Basher]
They want to rubberneck... they don't care that the actual game, the thing you play rather than the thing you look at and fantasize about, is dull and unvaried as eating sand.

[Desslock]
Naw, it's primarily a question of intelligence. People who think Skyrim is dull are mouth-breathing morons incapable of anything other than a superficial understanding of what they're doing. They gladly bark their milky-eyed, depthless observations proudly, as if they were delivering a learned dissertation instead of just highlighting their complete inability to comprehend, let alone appreciate, the joy that others get exploring and roleplaying in a virtual world of unparalleled depth, rich in details that they're too intellectually lethargic to even discern.

Sadly, their ignorance makes them prone to make angry, frustrated pleas for attention by trolling on message boards, in imbecilic, impotent attempts to try to convince more rational and appreciative individuals to adopt a duller, blinder, thick-headed understanding of the game even after many of those individuals have astutely determined, after many years of vigorous analytical scrutiny, Skyrim to be one of, or perhaps even the, best computer game ever created. Poor fuckers.

I love this guy!!!

I always loved Desslock's reviews. Where is he posting (or publishing) now?

Quarter to Three forums is where that interchange was made.

Sometimes he comes off a bit pompous and redneck, but he's got more integrity than most of the so-called gaming "journalists" out there, and has some good stuff in the Alternative Lives column of PCGamer. One of the highlights of the mag for me every month. Although I do believe he was one of the guys who thought Oblivion was one of the best things since the invention of fire. Not sure if he ever backpedaled that. No one's perfect, though.

I actually never got the point of roleplaying by yourself. That might be one of the reasons I never liked any of the TES games.... I guess that makes me a mouth-dripping moron?

That would mean that you don't like 90% of the games covered here, including Gothic.....

No surprise he likes Skyrim. After all there is a Desslock among the Ultima Dragons, I suppose it's him.

pibbur aka pibbur dragon.

I'm trying to remember the relevance of the Ultima Dragons, but it's not clicking... Was it a compuserve fan club of some sort? I remember being invited to join several eons ago, but I can't remember anything about them, other than they were connected to Ultima in some vague way and inordinately proud of it for some reason.

GothicGothicness said:

I actually never got the point of roleplaying by yourself. That might be one of the reasons I never liked any of the TES games…. I guess that makes me a mouth-dripping moron?

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You think that "roleplaying by yourself" is the main factor to those who enjoy TES games?!

The only bit in Dresslock's post I disagree with is: "perhaps even the, best computer game ever created".

You think that "roleplaying by yourself" is the main factor to those who enjoy TES games?!

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Yes, I thought so......

That would mean that you don't like 90% of the games covered here, including Gothic…..

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The gothics, has much better exploring, story and gameplay. Those are things I enjoy, and choice and consequnses and of course puzzles.

But anyway I haven't played skyrim so things might be completely different there.

[Rational Man]
What you enjoy is simply not a part of the product but rather your own imagined adventures that never actually happened. By the same logic Adventure is one of the most complex and ingenious games ever written because you can write pages of background stories for the main character, and the game allows you to BE anyone you want and PLAY as you want. Nevermind that it actually doesn't respond to those actions and that it doesn't make the ACTUAL GAME any better, because its FUN. Personally I play as a pacifist homosexual leprechaun named Drake, Drake was born in the summer of 82 on a thursday. This makes the game have more depth and more fun to play. Who really cares about gameplay, shitty stuff like fun exploration and character building? I got Drake.

Game of the year, all years.

[Desslock]
Your a poo poo head!

Not completely different, GG. The one thing that Gothic still does quite a bit better is have a group of characters that you interact with frequently. TES is too big to stay as focused on the small group idea. Skyrim is better in this regard though, than the earlier games. Skyrim has quite a few puzzles, very little choice and consequences, quite a bit better writing, and almost identical gameplay. Voice acting is vastly improved and level design is masterful this time.

Choice and consequence pops up only a handful of times and it's not super-relevant outside of picking which side to take in the Civil War. Most loot is still level-scaled and so are the encounters. Think Fallout 3 with some tweaking. I'll give an example of another place where there is a choice/consequence but I don't think it's the "type" of CC, your looking for:

crpgnut said:

Not completely different, GG. The one thing that Gothic still does quite a bit better is have a group of characters that you interact with frequently. TES is too big to stay as focused on the small group idea. Skyrim is better in this regard though, than the earlier games. Skyrim has quite a few puzzles, very little choice and consequences, quite a bit better writing, and almost identical gameplay. Voice acting is vastly improved and level design is masterful this time.

Choice and consequence pops up only a handful of times and it's not super-relevant outside of picking which side to take in the Civil War. Most loot is still level-scaled and so are the encounters. Think Fallout 3 with some tweaking. I'll give an example of another place where there is a choice/consequence but I don't think it's the "type" of CC, your looking for:

Spoiler

There is a town quest where you will be thrown in jail. Once there, you can choose to murder the guy who got you in so much trouble, or listen to his story and decide whether to support his rebellion/cause. If you murder him, you'll fight almost everyone in the prison, but will earn your freedom. If you help him, he and his buddies escape into the town, killing many of the guards and a few townspeople before leaving. This nets a ton of loot and also clears your name, so that's the way I played it.

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I couldn't say it better.

That Desslock post is as lame as basher´s.

crpgnut said:

Spoiler

There is a town quest where you will be thrown in jail. Once there, you can choose to murder the guy who got you in so much trouble, or listen to his story and decide whether to support his rebellion/cause. If you murder him, you'll fight almost everyone in the prison, but will earn your freedom. If you help him, he and his buddies escape into the town, killing many of the guards and a few townspeople before leaving. This nets a ton of loot and also clears your name, so that's the way I played it.

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Btw, this quest showcases well why C&C in Skyrim are a half-assed feature.
The conflict is interesting and set up well, but when player gets to the point of choice, it just ends in bloodshed one way or the other.
There´s a speech skill in the game, but one can´t use it anywhere during the quest to attempt to resolve the quest(s) peacefully.
There´s a pickpocket skill in the game, but if one wants to pickpocket the key to escape, one can´t, even though the guy has it if he´s killed.
I appreciate that Bethesda included such a conflict into the game because it, along with some others, makes the setting more interesting, but then they didn´t give players enough say in them for these to be satisfying from a roleplaying perspective in my opinion.
I really don´t think expanding a portfolio of player´s options in at least few key scenarios would require much work.