Dhruin
SasqWatch
Here's a good conversation topic - the best game baddies. Resolution Magazine dicusses their favourite bastards and the motivation they provide:
More information.
Bring Back the Bastards @ Resolution
- Thread starter Dhruin
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Zloth
I smell a... wumpus!?
Mass Effect's villians were interesting in that they were both kinds. One was a guy who really wasn't all that bad - he was just misguided, really. The other is just a Dalek-style, kill-everybody-because-I-want-to kind of villain.
Honestly, though, I think Westin Phipps is the worst bastard I've ever seen in a game. This is the kind of guy who will find some homeless person under a bridge, pretend to be a doctor that is there to give him a free checkup, then steal the poor guy's coat as soon as he takes it off.
Honestly, though, I think Westin Phipps is the worst bastard I've ever seen in a game. This is the kind of guy who will find some homeless person under a bridge, pretend to be a doctor that is there to give him a free checkup, then steal the poor guy's coat as soon as he takes it off.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
Nice mentions, and SHODAN is definitely one of the best. I'd have to give nods to Dr. Mastaba from BioForge as well - pretty delightful 
However, there's something to be said for gray area villains, and the revenge motive - while effective - is somewhat destructive to a healthy view of reality. I'd much rather have developers explore the deeper aspects of humanity, rather than the shortsighted morality-induced characters.
SHODAN, of course, transcends this problem by virtue of being an A.I. - and that makes her actions hard to judge.
I'd be really interested in going further with A.I. antagonists and perhaps explore more in-depth how they might justify their actions.
However, there's something to be said for gray area villains, and the revenge motive - while effective - is somewhat destructive to a healthy view of reality. I'd much rather have developers explore the deeper aspects of humanity, rather than the shortsighted morality-induced characters.
SHODAN, of course, transcends this problem by virtue of being an A.I. - and that makes her actions hard to judge.
I'd be really interested in going further with A.I. antagonists and perhaps explore more in-depth how they might justify their actions.
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Interesting thought, and I at least partially agree.
It's like "no, he ain't that bad, he just had a difficult childhood" kind of cliché.
To say "we want more "real bastardS" sounds like "we want more black & white" in terms of morality.
This is rare, considering that gaming business lives in an "age of grey", nowadays.
Some people say that "grey" is "more real", but the people who prefer the black&white cliché say that within grey, everything blurs, so much that there are no exact borders anymore.
On the other hand, exactly this is what the "grey faction" wants and likes so much of "grey" settings.
Me, I'm pro the "classical" approach of the "hero vs. villain" theme.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
I think there's room for both - as long as those who create black and white characters don't expect us to take it too seriously.
But it probably has to do with how one views the world, and as someone who hardly ever encounters something that's truly black and white - I find less appeal in "serious" stories with implausible characters.
That said, I DO enjoy the fantasy that everything is simple and clear-cut, because it can be a very welcome relief from my reality. But I just can't take it seriously, because I know the world isn't like that.
Grandor Dragon
Sentinel
Let's not forget The Master (Fallout 1). Not the badguy that pops up everywhere, but a lot of bad things are clearly linked to him. And your only encounter with him is extremely memorable.
The Harbinger of Doom, challenger to the throne of the Cosmic Circle... The Dark Savant. He plots an end to the Cosmic Circle, to sever the Destiny of the Stars from its protection. To wield the power of the gods by his hand alone.
He searches for the great secret. The Astral Dominae
He searches for the great secret. The Astral Dominae
Thoth
Sentinel
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Actually one of my favorite games and a game that never really has a clear "true" villain would have to be Bungie's Marathon trilogy. I'm not sure if anyone here has even heard of it, but it is still my favorite story by far in a video game.
A thousand points if anyone can guess where I got my name from... lol
A thousand points if anyone can guess where I got my name from... lol
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Marathon was great. I remember playing it on one of the first computers I got. An archaic mac. I didn't get very far in the game though. I was almost scared of the enemies.
Thoth
Sentinel
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Yeah, the enemies are great in those games, especially the first Marathon. It'd be all dark and you'd see movement on your radar and you could hear all this weird chatter. Great game.
You should try it again, you can download it for free since it's now opensource. Fans have made huge strides in modding it, they've even got it working on PCs.
For anyone that is interested: http://source.bungie.org/get/
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blatantninja
Resident Redneck Facist
Nice mentions, and SHODAN is definitely one of the best. I'd have to give nods to Dr. Mastaba from BioForge as well - pretty delightful
However, there's something to be said for gray area villains, and the revenge motive - while effective - is somewhat destructive to a healthy view of reality. I'd much rather have developers explore the deeper aspects of humanity, rather than the shortsighted morality-induced characters.
SHODAN, of course, transcends this problem by virtue of being an A.I. - and that makes her actions hard to judge.
I'd be really interested in going further with A.I. antagonists and perhaps explore more in-depth how they might justify their actions.
I agree. A villain that you really have to think about makes you think about the game long after you are done with it. That said, given the quality writing of most games in general, until more studios dedicate specific resources to story development, that depth of villain is going to be unattainable in most shops.
Thanks, definately going to check that out when I get the time. If nothing, only for nostalgia.
Prime Junta
RPGCodex' Little BRO
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Me! The Pfhor rule(d), and those exploding Bobs scared the willies out of me. "They're everywhere! ... KA-BOOM!" Ooh, and grenade-jumping! Remember grenade-jumping?
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Thoth
Sentinel
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Oh yes indeed! I played those games more then any other game I'd imagine. I used to make a lot of maps too, just for myself really. It was really cool of Bungie to release it before getting bought by Microsoft.
It's the only game I know of that still has debate about it's story even after a decade or so since being released.
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Lucky Day
Daywatch
Bioware recommended modelling game villains in NWN after Dune's Baron Vladimir Harkonnen. He was in a few of the Dune games so I think he qualifies. You can't much of a worse black and white character, except according to the Bene Gesserit who just considered him to just be a carnal person.
Which leads to some of the philosophical discussion we are having. As for Black and White and Gray, one thing that Granny Weatherwax (Carpe Jugulum) and my Lord and Saviour point out, there is White and there is various shades of off-white.
This is not something I think you see a whole lot of of in video games, the closest being catch-22 dilemmas that some devs and players think are what make an interesting story. Maybe the Ultimas asre close with the 8 virtue system, where one little mistake can taint the player and they have to make up for it.
I think one of the best baddies was from the adventure game Neuromancer. His was a plot twist that has never been duplicated.
Which leads to some of the philosophical discussion we are having. As for Black and White and Gray, one thing that Granny Weatherwax (Carpe Jugulum) and my Lord and Saviour point out, there is White and there is various shades of off-white.
This is not something I think you see a whole lot of of in video games, the closest being catch-22 dilemmas that some devs and players think are what make an interesting story. Maybe the Ultimas asre close with the 8 virtue system, where one little mistake can taint the player and they have to make up for it.
I think one of the best baddies was from the adventure game Neuromancer. His was a plot twist that has never been duplicated.