Fallout: New Vegas - 5 Million Shipped

JuliusMagnus said:

And Alpha Protocol was a "NEW RPG".

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Duh! Forgot about that one, out of the loop for a while.
Meant more of a traditional/fantasy RPG.

I need to read more reviews on Alpha Protocol before I pick it up - the few I did read weren't very favorable.

And didn't like the first Dungeon Siege so even with Obsidian's track record of improving on sequels to other developer's games I will not be picking that up. Now if they made a sequel to Titan Quest...

Relayer said:

And didn't like the first Dungeon Siege so even with Obsidian's track record of improving on sequels to other developer's games I will not be picking that up. Now if they made a sequel to Titan Quest…

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What about the second?

DS2 vastly improved the game from DS1 as far as I concern. DS1 was a linear diablo-clone with a party. DS2 was more in the line of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, with fleshed out companions, subquests and better story.

Dungeon Siege III shares essentially only the bare bones gameplay (in that it's an action RPG a-là Diablo) and setting of the other Dungeon Siege games. It'll have to be judged on its strengths and weaknesses methinks.

JemyM said:

What about the second?

DS2 vastly improved the game from DS1 as far as I concern. DS1 was a linear diablo-clone with a party. DS2 was more in the line of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, with fleshed out companions, subquests and better story.

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I agree that it was an improvement. However the expansion to DS2 was horrible. Imho, the improvements in DS2 were undone with that expansion and it became very lineair again, but I believe it was made by an external studio.

All released in 2002, Dungeon Siege, TES III: Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights were the first RPGs I played after I decided to no longer play MMOs (It was the 56k modem era). I decided to choose an experience that didn't contain l33tspeak on the one hand and didn't force you to go all shakespear on a Roleplay server on the other . I'd chosen to go for the singleplayer RPG experience, the three games all have their own approaches and thus had varying appeal to me. But since that time, I'll always look forward to sequels to those games to see how their approaches have changed over the years. And I'll keep buying them (unless they go the MMO route; Neverwinter, I'm looking at you).

Anyway, I can't wait to see what Obsidian does with it.

By the way, after Neverwinter Nights 2 as an actual direct sequel and Fallout: NV as a technological sequel (Free Roam Exploration, Real-Time and First Person) and the upcomming Dungeon Siege 3, Obsidian will have produced sequels to all those three games from 2002.

JemyM said:

What about the second?

DS2 vastly improved the game from DS1 as far as I concern. DS1 was a linear diablo-clone with a party. DS2 was more in the line of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, with fleshed out companions, subquests and better story.

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I didn't like the first, why would I get the second? Not like it was from some developer or of a franchise/IP I was a fan of.

I thought DS was incredibly boring - possibly even more so than the NWN OC. Calling it a Diablo-clone is giving it too much credit. I didn't love Titan Quest but it was a decent game and good Diablo clone.

Was the DS sequel really that much better? Hmm... anyone else?

JuliusMagnus said:

By the way, after Neverwinter Nights 2 as an actual direct sequel and Fallout: NV as a technological sequel (Free Roam Exploration, Real-Time and First Person) and the upcomming Dungeon Siege 3, Obsidian will have produced sequels to all those three games from 2002.

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I wouldn't call Fallout: NV a sequel in ANY way to Morrowind.

Interesting position Obsidian is in though, having produced the most sequels to games they had nothing to do with originally: NWN (2002), Fallout 3 (2008), KOTOR (2003), Dungeon Siege (2002). Actually, I can't think of any company that has done this before!

But what I would love to see Obsidian develop is a new Planescape game!!!
(Or KOTOR 3, and not a rush job!!!).

(Or KOTOR 3, and not a rush job!!!)

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What about finishing KOTOR 2, first ?

HiddenX said:

What about finishing KOTOR 2, first ?

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Kotor 2 is finished. The main problem with it is that you need to play both sides simultaneously to get the best idea of what is going on as in 2 games. Because if you play only one side you only get half the idea of what is happening.

Relayer said:

I didn't like the first, why would I get the second? Not like it was from some developer or of a franchise/IP I was a fan of.

I thought DS was incredibly boring - possibly even more so than the NWN OC. Calling it a Diablo-clone is giving it too much credit. I didn't love Titan Quest but it was a decent game and good Diablo clone.

Was the DS sequel really that much better? Hmm… anyone else?

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Yeah, DS2 was MUCH better.

I found DS1 to be incredibly bland and samey, and DS2 to be a pretty good game.

The only real issue I had, was that character development was too linear and rigid - but still miles ahead of the prequel.

You just have to give it a chance, and survive the first couple of hours - because they're kinda weak. But it develops into a relatively full experience, especially considering the legacy of a pure hack and slash game.

I was certainly pleasantly surprised.

Relayer said:

I didn't like the first, why would I get the second?

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I loathed DS1 and I believe your statement is fully understandable and unfortunally caused a good game to fail. This is a shame, because DS2 was everything DS1 should have been. DS2 adds a fleshed out world (a heavy journal), real quests, real story, a lot of side content, NPC's to interact and have dialogue with, subquests, companion subquests (and pretty well written companions for this kind of game), a less linear experience etc. That way DS2 is more in the line what I would demand from a CRPG these days, where DS1 was simply diablo-with-a-party to me.

I think the reason for DS2's failure was because those who would enjoy it were turned off by DS1, and those who wanted another DS1 didn't find it in DS2. Maybe this is why the reason the DS2 expansion wen't back to the DS1 formula which like JuliusMagnus said undid the improvements DS2 did. Still, DS2 is one of the more enjoyable partybased RPG's out there. I would include it with games like Arcanum and Divine Divinity as those random odd titles people who are looking for more RPG's to play should check out.

So the question is really which Dungeon Siege, one or two, that they base DS3 on. If it is DS1 I guess we can expect another partbased Sacred 2, Silverfall or Titan Quest that is also buggy, semisupported and not very balanced. If it's more like DS2 we can expect another Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age style of game, which is also buggy, semisupported and not very balanced with a later community patch to shape it up.

I can't imagine Obsidian doing a DS1 - it's just not their thing.

I think they'll probably do their own spin on an action RPG - which is going to be interesting, but I don't really see them succeeding. Creating a good action RPG is, in my opinion, very much about a visceral and smooth "feel" and to be honest, that's about the last thing I would trust Obsidian to accomplish.

But I hope I'm wrong about this, and I still love those guys - so maybe they'll surprise us.

Does anyone know what sold more ? DS1 or DS2 ?

There's videos of a presentation of the game they did at the New York Comic-Con, so there's already stuff to judge how it looks and plays.

Like this: http://www.ripten.com/2010/10/15/ob...new-onyx-engine-with-dungeon-siege-iii-video/

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c-DMZGIPuQ&fmt=22

And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ0ErJYHS7Q&feature=sub

I must say, it doesn't really look similar to either of its predecessors, aside from the fact that they're all hack'n'slash games.

Also, Associate Producer Alvin Nelson and Lead Designer Nathaniel Chapman answered some questions based on that presentation on the Obsidian boards. Starts from here.

DS2 was hack n slash in the sense that Divine Divinity was hack n slash.

JemyM said:

I loathed DS1 and I believe your statement is fully understandable and unfortunally caused a good game to fail. This is a shame, because DS2 was everything DS1 should have been. DS2 adds a fleshed out world (a heavy journal), real quests, real story, a lot of side content, NPC's to interact and have dialogue with, subquests, companion subquests (and pretty well written companions for this kind of game), a less linear experience etc. That way DS2 is more in the line what I would demand from a CRPG these days, where DS1 was simply diablo-with-a-party to me.

I think the reason for DS2's failure was because those who would enjoy it were turned off by DS1, and those who wanted another DS1 didn't find it in DS2. Maybe this is why the reason the DS2 expansion wen't back to the DS1 formula which like JuliusMagnus said undid the improvements DS2 did. Still, DS2 is one of the more enjoyable partybased RPG's out there. I would include it with games like Arcanum and Divine Divinity as those random odd titles people who are looking for more RPG's to play should check out.

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Good observations.

I bought DS1 firsthand (in a store, no less), but only picked up DS2 secondhand. Looking at the figures DS1 will have seemed to do better on my purchasing habits. Very much looking forward to DS3 though, possible pre-order.

Relayer said:

I wouldn't call Fallout: NV a sequel in ANY way to Morrowind.

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Obviously I disagree. I see it more as a sequel in the sense that the same engine was used. Like the games on the Infinity engine and the games on the Gold Box engine all aren't that different technologically.

Personally, New Vegas feels closer to Morrowind in some regards than Oblivion and Fallout 3 (a return of the importance of factions, sidequests which don't rely on quest markers because they are only given through dialog and notes).

But my actual point was that there were three 2002 games that were an iso hack-and-slash, a firstperson exploration sandbox rpg and a semi-iso dnd based rpg. Once DS3 is released, Obsidian will have tried it's hand at each type.

Interesting position Obsidian is in though, having produced the most sequels to games they had nothing to do with originally: NWN (2002), Fallout 3 (2008), KOTOR (2003), Dungeon Siege (2002). Actually, I can't think of any company that has done this before!

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Certainly not within the RPG genre. Although some EA or Activision owned studios probably have to work on the sequels to original IPs of others all the time.

But what I would love to see Obsidian develop is a new Planescape game!!!
(Or KOTOR 3, and not a rush job!!!).

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Planescape is probably as close as it gets to an own IP for Chris Avellone (outside of AP ofcourse).

As for being rushed; I just hope they don't get burned by Square-Enix, after their experiences with LucasArts and Sega.

WorstUsernameEver said:

There's videos of a presentation of the game they did at the New York Comic-Con, so there's already stuff to judge how it looks and plays.

Like this: http://www.ripten.com/2010/10/15/ob...new-onyx-engine-with-dungeon-siege-iii-video/

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c-DMZGIPuQ&fmt=22

And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ0ErJYHS7Q&feature=sub

I must say, it doesn't really look similar to either of its predecessors, aside from the fact that they're all hack'n'slash games.

Also, Associate Producer Alvin Nelson and Lead Designer Nathaniel Chapman answered some questions based on that presentation on the Obsidian boards. Starts from here.

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Ofcourse DS3 looks good. I remember thinking the same of DS1 and DS2 at time of release (I was also impressed with the non-loading between interrior and exterior). But each time with the release of a sequel I'm reminded that 3D isometric doesn't age well graphically.

JemyM said:

So the question is really which Dungeon Siege, one or two, that they base DS3 on. If it is DS1 I guess we can expect another partbased Sacred 2, Silverfall or Titan Quest that is also buggy, semisupported and not very balanced. If it's more like DS2 we can expect another Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age style of game, which is also buggy, semisupported and not very balanced with a later community patch to shape it up.

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Storywise, some nods to DS1 have been confirmed such as a burial monument to "The Farmer" and references to the 10th Legion. I don't know if events from DS2 will be referenced.

Can't really base post-launch support on anything, since all three games will have been published by different companies: Microsoft, 2KGames and Square-Enix respectively.

JuliusMagnus said:

Obviously I disagree. I see it more as a sequel in the sense that the same engine was used. Like the games on the Infinity engine and the games on the Gold Box engine all aren't that different technologically.

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I understand what you're trying to say, but that's like claiming Bioshock is a sequel to Unreal 3, or that The Witcher is a sequel to NWN 2.