RPG Codex - The Lists to Dwarf Them All

Thrasher said:
Very informative post. :rolleyes:
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Okay, I'll rebut in two and a half sentences, as per your original post.

It's among the best loved games of all times. It's rich in content and detail. And don't get me started on how great the combat system is....
 
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DarkUnderlord, is simply the leader of the sorrowful bunch of codexians( I mean who owns the place). That is why they asked his opinion. I don't think he even likes gaming :)
 
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Many other games fit that description. And the combat is terrible with companions. Not very convincing. And the post-apocalyptic setting is so tired and boring. Not seeing any richness there.
 
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Thrasher said:
Many other games fit that description. And the combat is terrible with companions. Not very convincing. And the post-apocalyptic setting is so tired and boring. Not seeing any richness there.
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Okay okay, I really need to respond to this.

"And the combat is terrible with companions." - The combat system wasn't built around companions. They're ancillary at best. It's like complaining that Wizardry's combat system isn't very good for single character playthroughs.

"And the post-apocalyptic setting is so tired and boring." - How exactly is it tired? I can think of one major CRPG with that setting before Fallout: its spiritual prequel, Wasteland. Nonetheless, the two are still quite different and quite interesting.

You want to talk tired and boring? Elves and Dwarves in a fantasy Faux-Europe. Post-apocalyptic is ANYTHING tired but in the CRPG genre.

" Not seeing any richness there." - Opinions. People have them.

Of course, yours are wrong.. but you know, that happens.
;-)
 
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There have been a bunch of post-apocalyptic games. At the time it may have been nearly unique, but we are talking about the greatest of all time not at that time. Let's keep some perspective here. The setting is boring and tired. Nothing really innovative there.

And the combat was tedious. Saying that companions don't count when they make combat excruciating tedious and bad is just a poor excuse for a bad design.
 
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Fallout was great, but it wouldn't be in my top 10.

Fallout 2 has no business being on that list imo, much less in the top 5.
 
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Fallout is my favorite, maybe I should start spending some time at the codex. Loved the combat, the characters, the setting, and most of all the story. Best ending to a RPG of all time, in my opinion. My half-evil character sliced a lazer blast right through the Overseer (fitting and very satisfying for me, seeing as a couple times I tried storming Vault 13 to kill the bastard unsuccessfully).
 
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Xarg said:
DarkUnderlord, is simply the leader of the sorrowful bunch of codexians( I mean who owns the place). That is why they asked his opinion. I don't think he even likes gaming :)
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He said "Fallout is good." He also seemed to like Fallout 2 and Arcanum. Two other games I really liked. For whatever reason, I have always struggled with Infinity Engine games. I have been working on Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 for a long time (in the big world setup -- still not through the 1st game's story), and recently just knuckled down and finished PS: Torment (I have been playing both on and off for about a year now). I haven't been fond of the combat parts in particular. I liked Torment, certain parts especially struck a chord with me, but Fallout and Arcanum both appeal to me much more.
 
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JDR13 said:
Fallout was great, but it wouldn't be in my top 10.

Fallout 2 has no business being on that list imo, much less in the top 5.
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On my list it'd be #1 or #2. Both games, can't watch them as a separate thing as I've played them one after another back then.
 
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I have to agree that Fallout 1 had a pretty poor and tedious combat system. Nonetheless, I'm not surprised to see it in the top 10. It was great just for the scope of what it tried to do, with so many options and little things about your character that could have cool and surprising effects on the story. Other games since then have done it better, but Fallout was the first and was pretty revolutionary at the time.

Really, a lot of the best RPGs, especially back in the old day, had terrible combat systems. In fact out of every RPG on that list, the only one that I thought had a good combat system was Temple of Elemental Evil (and I personally consider that game to be a failure when taken as a whole).
 
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The Codex has always been a Fallout fansite, so having it at #1 isn't too suprising, whatever you may think of the game's quality.

And DarkUnderlord is indeed the chief admin and co-founder of the site, so he can fool around as much as he wants. I hope everyone realizes his remarks are there as a kind of non-serious contrast to the other comments. A joke, if you will.
 
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I think the Gold Box games and Temple of Elemental Evil had the best combat. Also RTWP set up to autopause on every round comes in a close second (infinity engine games) probably tied with blob based turn-based combat like Wizardry 8 and World of Xeen. And don't forget POR2 and Spiderweb games great turn-based combat.

Realtime FP combat. That's a different thing, but in general for me is a totally different and incomparable experience.
 
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fadedc said:
Really, a lot of the best RPGs, especially back in the old day, had terrible combat systems. In fact out of every RPG on that list, the only one that I thought had a good combat system was Temple of Elemental Evil (and I personally consider that game to be a failure when taken as a whole).
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This is one topic that should be debated more often. IMHO ToEE has a faithful TB adaption of the 3.5 D&D rules (which are the known best), but is the combat really good?

It has a plethora of options, there is no muddling through, no AI trickery and you can always win using the right strategy, but I had a ton more fun with Fallout 1/2 combat than with ToEE. Heck, I even had more fun with POR2 combat than with ToEE, not to mention all Gold Box games.

For me it is the same thing with Wizard's Crown vs. Gold Box. The first one has perfect P&P combat, the other has good combat IMHO.

So, perfection does not always guarantee satisfaction.
 
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I like this list! played them all - loved them all.
 
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