Risen - PC Review @ Eurogamer

The problem I have with this sort of thing is that it inherently SHRINKS the game market - everyone claims to want a more diverse user-experience, yet the reviews and sales often belie that notion.

Sales reward me-too generic dumbed down stuff which are the equivalent of the awful Transformers 2 being the biggest hit of 2009.

Reviews have become worse and worse - more and more we see things that cannot be described as anything but 'bought' on major sites, who balance things by down-scoring non-paid off games. The net effect is to encourage folks to buy ultra-mainstream 'Madden equivalents' while discouraging anyone to step outside their comfort zone.

It is appalling.
 
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That's kinda what I've been saying forever and I'm hated for it, so… ;)

What can you do ... ;)

It is frustrating to me as someone who writes loads of reviews to see this happening more and more.
 
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By that token, they would give Miley Cyrus / Britney Spears / Jonas Bros 10/10, and Beethoven / Miles Davis / etc a 2/10 and that would make sense to you?

While I'm the last person to really defend the current odd structure of the gaming industry & journalism; yes, that would make sense. Not to review Beethoven and Miles Davis who, last time I checked, aren't coming out with new CDs. But if I'm a Pop Magazine, and I for some reason review a new classic composition by a young composer, I'll blast it to hell. Why? Well who amongst my readers would enjoy it? No one is who.

Thing is, a pop mag probably wouldn't review such a CD. Because they know it falls outside of their field and their readers don't care anyway. If anything's wrong with the picture here, it's that sites like IGN/GameSpy/Eurogamer feel the need to review games like Risen despite clearly missing the specialism to do so. That's just a sign of the relative immature of game journalism.
 
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Don't see anything wrong with the review, 6/10 isn't an unfair score if you consider the (larger than)second half of the game to be rubbish.

How do you figure that? Chapters 1&2 were great, and comprised a much larger part of the game than Chapters 3&4 did. I do agree that the latter were disappointing though.

You're right, I just checked my savegame hours and chap1+2 took me around 26 hours while chapters 3-4 only took 10.(but truth be told i took my time in the first half, taking in the sights, walking around, chatting to everyone whereas I rushed through the latter half)

The fact that the last two chapters felt longer than the first two says everything.

I thought the temples were well done, I really loved walking around with a torch out looking for traps, but after you've done two in a row the game turns into fight-fight-trap-fight-trap-fight-fight-fight.

I really enjoyed the first half, especially harbor town, but that part of the game and its pacing made me expect the game to be much larger in scope than it turned out to be, after chapter 2 there was little to nothing in the way of new npcs to talk to, interesting places to visit or sidequests.

Reminds me of bloodlines a bit, that game suffered a severe quality drop near the end too with an excessive amount of combat/dungeoning to artificially extend length, while Risen's latter half is never as boring as bloodlines' descent into a combat fest, its first half is also nowhere near as inspired.

I don't have a problem with the guy's score of 6/10, I'd give it a 7/10 myself, certainly less than the witcher.
 
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Well , you can never trust sites for reviewing games , there was a case of a reviewer commending that "football manager 2009 was not as good as pro-evo soccer" , like saying that Gothic III is not as good as Cossacks...
Also exclusives come with a heavy load of bias , playing 10 hours of OB and giving it 10/10 means there is either something wrong with you as a reviewer or you have no clue what RPG gaming is.
I don't think people are inadequate , i just believe that modern journalism is only about profit and nothing else.

I wouldn't say that "generic" is by definition bad , "Noctis" proven that a generic game can be interesting by packing 1 billion stars / planets/ moons someone can visit in a program less than 2mb.
 
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But if I'm a Pop Magazine, and I for some reason review a new classic composition by a young composer, I'll blast it to hell. Why? Well who amongst my readers would enjoy it? No one is who.

The thing is, though, that as a reviewer it's not your job to make guesstimates about how much "your readers" (no doubt a diverse bunch) would enjoy something, but to explain how much you enjoy something, and why. You're not a mind reader, you're a reviewer.

And this is just as true for a mainstream site as it is for a specialist site.
 
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The previous Gothics had a similar structure. A couple of long, open chapters.. and then a very focused "finale" with short linear chapters.

This is actually one of the things that I liked about these games, namely the unity of time and place. The world is relatively expansive but well-defined. You can choose to explore this world, or not, whenever you want, it just happens that most of us do this during chapters 1 and/or 2.

Once the world is explored, the gothic games always became much more focused and limited in scope as you approached the conclusion. That's fine by me and the way any good novel or story would work. The problems I have had in the past with these games is the lack of balance as you approached the endgame, but this was much less of an issue for me in Risen.

I like the fact that the storyline is focused and works within a defined world. Realistically why do we need another town, what does that add to the story or the world, just more stuff. More content without structure or meaning adds nothing to a game IMHO. Oblivion got boring for me very quickly. Sandbox gaming is not the be-all and end-all.

This is obviously the review of a console gamer, despite his claims that he is speaking for or defending the pc gamer. The reason why I prefer the PC for games is that you can still get this kind of game and have it be viable on the PC.
 
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The thing is, though, that as a reviewer it's not your job to make guesstimates about how much "your readers" (no doubt a diverse bunch) would enjoy something, but to explain how much you enjoy something, and why.

Yes. And no.

Look, first, there's something inherently wrong with the way many reviews are structured. I'd say the standard for reviews should be stacking up facts and relative objective analysis of a game before presenting an opinion that is clearly and unambiguously derived from the facts. In fact, I'd say this standard has something self-evident about it, making it all the more odd how few times one can see it in professional reviews.

Using that standard, it matters significantly less what your audience is. You're giving them facts and you're giving them a set of logic that they can follow. They can build their own opinion on that exactly because the facts are facts and because the logic is structured in such a way that they can clearly see if this is the kind of reasoning they can agree with or not. That is why this method is superior, I would say, to just stating opinions.

But as someone who has written for pretty diverse types of sites (from an over-specialized over-opinionated fansite like NMA to a general RPG specialty site like GameBanshee to a mainstream generalist site like GamerNode), I've learned it's not all that simple. There's two factors in particular that stick out like a thumb:
1. How much do you write and what do you focus on when writing? Internet reviews are theoretically limitless, but not even the Watch and GameBanshee audiences would read a 40-page review of Dragon Age or Fallout 3. I feel more comfortable writing a 4-page review for GB than for GN. And given the text-limit reaches no more than 1000 words for GN, I have to pick and choose what to discuss and how much. So how do I choose? I have to guess what my audience is interested in. I could focus purely on what I care about but I'm not writing for myself.

2. Marks. Personally, I hate grading games but hell, it's what everyone does. Summarizing an entire field of plusses and minuses, opinions, yesses, nos, buts and howevers into a single grade as an exercise in asininity, as evinced by how long I've been agonizing over my Risen grade by now.

What makes them extra painful is that I'm well aware that easily half my readers read the intro, conclusion and grade, if that, and many only glance at the grade. Obviously, the most important thing in giving out a mark is how much I like a game. But it's also a form of recommendation. If I'm reviewing an Avernum game, it'll usually range in the 7s for GB. I couldn't possibly recommend it to GN readers, so I might have to give it something into the 5s if I'd ever review it there. Which is exactly why I don't.
 
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Once the world is explored, the gothic games always became much more focused and limited in scope as you approached the conclusion.

But… if it wasn't people would complain then too :)

Though, I do think Risen had one of the weakest latter half's yet.

Maybe, they were perhaps being a bit over cautious from G3? G3 had a really great latter half and ending - the type they should have used for Risen as well.
 
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The thing is, though, that as a reviewer it's not your job to make guesstimates about how much "your readers" (no doubt a diverse bunch) would enjoy something, but to explain how much you enjoy something, and why. You're not a mind reader, you're a reviewer.

I don't have a problem with this when it's consistent. But game reviewers, particlarly those that exist only on the net, trip over themselves all day long to explain why you, the reader, should enjoy 'something' when the reviewer is motivated to do so. Then this ball is conveniently dropped when the reviewer's take on a game is negative for whatever reason.

I'm with txa on this. I think a lot of this has less to do with actual taste for a genre as it has to do with 'exclusives' and 'payoffs'... in short, 'business.'
 
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Maybe, they were perhaps being a bit over cautious from G3? G3 had a really great latter half and ending - the type they should have used for Risen as well.

Without even having got to the latter half of Risen it feels like they've been very cautious this time round.

No bad thing really, show the market that they can do a solid & bug free release and get enough sales to cover their investment in a stable game engine so that they've got a solid base to take a few more risks for Gothic 5 without taking so many risks that they produce another Gothic 3 mess.
 
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We're just going to have to live with it, I'm afraid.

Actually I don't. I read very few online reviews relative to how many exist on the net. The ones I read are mostly from this site.

By the late 90s/early 2000s when the internet really began to be used as a medium for delivery of gaming information... the force of that movement colllided with the MTV-ization of the gaming industry, to create this sort of 'rouge wave' of horrible gaming journalism to be found on the net.

Most gamers are of the younger demographic. It would be difficult, if not, impossible for many of them to realize just how aweful online journalsim is... like how it would be difficult for a fish to realize it's wet.

I still have a bunch of gaming mags from the 80s. Gaming journalism back then was in its infancy... and it really shows in those mags. But the reviews themselves were much better, although they lacked the 'snappiness' of the MTV cool kids of todays reviewers.
 
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My review (as if anyone cares :D ) since I just finished Risen on the PC:

Risen - 3.5/5 stars

For comparison, my scores for:

Gothic III - 4/5 stars
Oblivion - 4.5/5 stars (yes, I bought the horse armor)

I'd write something lengthy, but I think that would just annoy everyone. I'll just simply say that Risen was fun, imaginative, different enough, and I give it points for combat above both G3 and TES4.
 
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Look, first, there's something inherently wrong with the way many reviews are structured. I'd say the standard for reviews should be stacking up facts and relative objective analysis of a game before presenting an opinion that is clearly and unambiguously derived from the facts.

Exactly. There are a few print-mag reviewers I enjoy because the start of their reviews typically begins with what is advertised on the game's box (or advertisements for the game). Those are the starting point 'facts' about the game.

Then they invest an appropriate amount of time in the game to see how well it serves up the experiences touted on the game's box. I really like that approach. It is one of the most fair approaches I can think of.

Most online reviewers are the antitheses of that. They compare a game to similar games and then rip it apart (or priase) it based on that comparison. And while they're doing that, they don't invest the appropriate amount of time in the game.

I still chuckle about some abscure online review I read where the reviewer stated there was no autosave in Oblivion and went on to chastise that point for a few sentences. But I read that kind of thing too often on the net.
 
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I still chuckle about some abscure online review I read where the reviewer stated there was no autosave in Oblivion and went on to chastise that point for a few sentences. But I read that kind of thing too often on the net.

Oh, it gets much worse than that:
Add to that, that again and unlike Fallout 3, the numerous oddball characters you'll encounter on your travels prove not to be memorable or interesting in the slightest. Plus the lack of the VATS system - which after over 60 hours of Fallout takes some getting used to. The fact that character dialogue is in the main, restricted to paragraphs of text instead of well delivered audio. And suddenly, when comparing the two, Fallout very much comes out on top.
Frith, how I wish the above paragraph was a joke.
 
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I briefly discussed with pelit-magazine reviewer about Risen and he said that he gave the game only 80% because he didnt really like the type of rpg it is. He added that you could easily add more points if you like gothics.

With that review and others it seems like there are lots of reviewers (and players?) who dont like gothics. It kind of came as a suprise to me because I thought the series was well liked by the mainstream. But I guess its not.
 
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Well, I don't want to make a flame war here, but I think there is a HUGE misunderstanding here.

Oblivion is a casual RPG, and as such, it absolutely succeeds.
Risen is a niche, hardcore stuff for hardcore RPGers who are willing to invest the time it demands for.
So, if you run a review site for the masses, what game should you favor? Oblivion (great for the masses, thus, 10/10), or Risen (bad for the masses, thus, 6/10)?
In this regards, IMHO, Eurogamer's indication is spot on.


So just forget about being non-biased, or having any kind of journalistic integrity, right?
 
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I briefly discussed with pelit-magazine reviewer about Risen and he said that he gave the game only 80% because he didnt really like the type of rpg it is.

This is partly why newspapers around the world are failing. Too many 'journalists' out there can't separate their subjectivity from objectivity and actually do their job.
 
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I completed it this weekend, totalling up at around 60 hours, so I definitely took my time with it! (that doesn't even include the reloads of which there were lots)

I really enjoyed the game, being the first game in a while I actually completed, I'd rate it above Gothic 3 and Oblivion, as both of those games had silly stumbling blocks that stopped me playing. (Gothic 3 had all the Orcs turn against making the quests impossible to complete, and Oblivion had the option to turn yourself completely invisible making the game pointless, plus a dreadful levelling system)

I'd certainly replay Risen, probably go for a Mage on a replay. :)

Daniel.
 
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