PC Gamer - Misogyny & Video Gamers

The root of these threats isn't the mysogynist nature of the gaming demographic but the anonymity of the internet.

Sacred_Path said:

The root of these threats isn't the mysogynist nature of the gaming demographic but the anonymity of the internet.

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I think these two elements are interdependent. In the world before the internet misogyny was only "celebrated" in closed male circles (or in open public, because it was normal back then - but that's a different story) which defined themselves as bands of brothers.

These circles have opend up into anonymous internet plattforms, where underachieves can promote their cult of machismo. That the industry thinks that they have to give these demographic what it apparently wants is obvious with every new iteration of COD game trailers.

Sir_Brennus said:

I think these two elements are interdependent. In the world before the internet misogyny was only "celebrated" in closed male circles (or in open public, because it was normal back then - but that's a different story) which defined themselves as bands of brothers.

These circles have opend up into anonymous internet plattforms, where underachieves can promote their cult of machismo. That the industry thinks that they have to give these demographic what it apparently wants is obvious with every new iteration of COD game trailers.

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They are two seperate phenomena though and you need to differentiate between the two. Lumping them together doesn't make anyone look good/ scientifically minded.

You have to allow for the fact that people may act out of their usual character when given an avenue for that. People may throw sexist remarks around under the guise of nicknames that may not reflect their usual behavior.
Games add another twist because games are about wish fulfilment - kind of like porn. You can't criticize the fact that certain things are being bought - you can only criticize that among the products offered, you can't find anything you like. No sane person wants BDSM porn banned, and no sane person wants violent/ sexist games banned.

Couchpotato said:

Now to clarify I don't care if Anita is right or wrong. I'm just ashamed of the segment of gamers, and about how they go about expressing there opinions.

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The only part I'm a little skeptical about is that this is specific to gamers. You take just about any activity that is of strong interest to males and you're bound to find some immature, reactionary types. Sports is rife with this sort of thing.

I thought I recognized this lady.

The Amazing Atheist has been taking her to task for years now. Here's one from over a year ago:

REFUTING ANITA SARKEESIAN's "Damsel in Distress: Part 2"

I looked into these videos years ago and I have to say, I'm with the Atheist on this one.

She damages the cause of people who genuinely understand the real problems by presenting herself as a figurehead for the cause when she does nothing but spew shit, thereby muddying the waters even further. ie: no help to 'anyone'.

If I was someone who was genuinely interested in the gender aspects of gaming, the last person I'd want speaking for me is this Anita moron.

As the Atheist states in this video, she complains that games make women out to be victims... and then, as with this latest article, takes every opportunity possible to make herself a victim! MINDMELT!

I think you guys are missing the point.

As Couch pointed out, nobody's trying to exalt the merits of her journalism or the strength of her character. This article was posted to point out just how bad the problem is - when someone speaking out about misogyny in video games is forced out of her home, it tends to prove her point, and the point of every reasonable person who's spoken on the topic.

Those that ignore this and go back to degrading her "…but look, she's a crappy person" are also proving the point. Those people are trying to sidestep the issue and tear down the person representing it in this article and discussion.

These comments show that misogyny is alive and well on this site, whether by blatantly saying "I hate women and I hate anyone that stands up for them", or by trying to attack someone who brings it to light.

But I will say this for RPGWatch. There's more decent and educated gamers here than anywhere else I've seen. I hope that means good things for the future.

Ah, the old usenet style point-by-point. That's some nineties era classicism, right there. Let's see if I remember how.

MinorityReport said:

Huh?

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Is this even a word?

MinorityReport said:

Erm…

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Again, not a word.

MinorityReport said:

flabbergasted

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From inarticulate to pretentious in a flash!

MinorityReport said:

parapet

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Oh my god, are you kidding me? Are you Colin Meloy?

MinorityReport said:

garden centre advertising

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Irrelevant.

MinorityReport said:

No.

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No?

MinorityReport said:

but, wait, stop a minute

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Hm.

MinorityReport said:

carte blanche

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And now he's French. How do you live with yourself?

MinorityReport said:

old shit

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Don't you mean vieille merde, Frenchy?

MinorityReport said:

'ogyny'

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I am increasingly convinced that you just don't know what words are.

Aubrielle said:

These comments show that misogyny is alive and well on this site, whether by blatantly saying "I hate women and I hate anyone that stands up for them", or by trying to attack someone who brings it to light.

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While I don't condone what has happened, I don't think you can ignore the credibility of a person when you are trying to weigh the strength of their arguments. One also can't assume that all the people attacking her are necessarily gamers--they may be trolls who are enjoying the attention, or misogynists with an opportunity to gang up on and attack somebody they hate.

No, it would be an object lesson in how (not) to communicate constructively online.

Which, hey, is kind of the subject under discussion.

I'm truly saddened to see the Watch turning into a cesspool.

Kostas said:

I'm truly saddened to see the Watch turning into a cesspool.

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Any chance of some form of explanation or reasoning? I feel I want to contribute to your contribution, but your contribution doesn't actually offer anything?

What's got your goat?

MinorityReport said:

This is insane. You're now saying people are misogynists for disagreeing with a bullshit proposition, because the proposition is put forward by a female? I think it's you who that is suffering from an 'ogyny'.

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I don't agree with everything MinorityReportsaid but I find I encounter this commonly. I'm not even directing this at anybody's comment here particularly but, all too often, one side deals with disagreement from another side by labelling them (in gaming terms we have "haters" and "fan-boys" ). Those who disagree with a woman's viewpoint (even those not shared by most or many women) are labelled misogynists.

I have a friend who is against the LGBT "lifestyle" as he calls it and he often finds himself called a homophobe but I know no other person who treats people (regardless of sexual orientation) better than he does. He also doesn't approve of my being a gamer, and we've clashed a few times on the issue, but I certainly wouldn't call him a gaming-hater. Sometimes, people forget we can disagree without necessarily hating each other.

First off I don't endorse or condone the death threats and such but,

Is misogyny really the right word, HATRED of women??????

I mean men are running around in loincloths and being tortured and killed but no one says the gaming industry is riddled with misandry.

MinorityReport said:

You're teaching me how to communicate?

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Sadly, I don't seem to be, no.

RedSocialKnight said:

Sadly, I don't seem to be, no.

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What are you trying to contribute?

MinorityReport said:

Any chance of some form of explanation or reasoning? I feel I want to contribute to your contribution, but your contribution doesn't actually offer anything?

What's got your goat?

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Bringing literally the lowest of the low form of SJW to the frontpage and having it given life through a couple of Codexian trolls (HHR, DN).

SonOfCapiz said:

I have a friend who is against the LGBT "lifestyle" as he calls it and he often finds himself called a homophobe but I know no other person who treats people (regardless of sexual orientation) better than he does. He also doesn't approve of my being a gamer, and we've clashed a few times on the issue, but I certainly wouldn't call him a gaming-hater. Sometimes, people forget we can disagree without necessarily hating each other.

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Actually your friend is pretty objectively a homophobe and a bigot, and a small minded intolerant individual.

As for the 'missing the point' thing from before, this is about much more than Anita ... There is simply no denying that women are actively discriminated against and marginalized in tech and gaming industries. Period. There is not.

As for the utter nonsense of gaming being a male activity, um, look at any recent research ... Women WANT to play games! and vote with their wallets and ARE making up a huge amount of the audience. But since men hold the positions of power, they do what works for themselves, and when revenues don't meet expectations they blame piracy.

txa1265 said:

Actually your friend is pretty objectively a homophobe and a bigot, and a small minded intolerant individual.

As for the 'missing the point' thing from before, this is about much more than Anita … There is simply no denying that women are actively discriminated against and marginalized in tech and gaming industries. Period. There is not.

As for the utter nonsense of gaming being a male activity, um, look at any recent research … Women WANT to play games! and vote with their wallets and ARE making up a huge amount of the audience. But since men hold the positions of power, they do what works for themselves, and when revenues don't meet expectations they blame piracy.

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I'm afraid it's you who's marked yourself out as a bigot. There are many LGBT individuals who despise the LGBT 'lifestyle' because they see it as a form of stereotype entrenchment rather than continued liberation and social acceptance. By pushing something personal as a 'lifestyle agenda' you run the risk of imposing a 'one voice for all' stigma which has greater potential for alienation rather than inclusion.

Everyone is well aware of gender division throughout the entirety of society and there are plenty of people who discuss this issue on a daily basis, so, yes, this topic is entirely and completely about Anita. If you want to debate the issue generally and to the exclusion of Anita, this aint the thread for you, because this thread is about Anita...

No-one has said gaming is an entirely male activity. As you then go on to say, it's about wallets. People buy the games they want to play. I have no doubt that Call of Duty is not primarily aimed at women, just as Nancy Drew games are not primarily aimed at men.

And what do women buy with their hard earned? Oh... um... let me see... it would be 50 Shades of Grey... THAT'S HELPFUL, THANKS LADIES. (Yes, that was also written by a woman and solely propelled to fame by women). Has Anita discussed this book yet?

RedSocialKnight said:

Ah, the old usenet style point-by-point. That's some nineties era classicism, right there. Let's see if I remember how.



Is this even a word?



Again, not a word.



From inarticulate to pretentious in a flash!



Oh my god, are you kidding me? Are you Colin Meloy?



Irrelevant.



No?



Hm.



And now he's French. How do you live with yourself?



Don't you mean vieille merde, Frenchy?



I am increasingly convinced that you just don't know what words are.

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Off topic:
MR is on my ignore list, and now I remembered why


On topic:
I think the people sending death threats are morons and I agree there is quite a bit of sexism in games. I wouldn't call everyone misogynists though.

I think that's a step further.
I think it's more of a teenager fantasy type of thing. There's a reason why the women in many games look like porn starts with boobs ready to explode.

Most gamers (of non-'casual' games) tend to be guys between 15-30, who until the past ten years were seen as nerds who could never get girls.

I don't see that as anything else but fantasy fulfilment rather than misogyny.
I don't deny there are misogynists out there, but that that definition does not in general seem to fit the picture I tend to see.

Of course I might be wrong.

Pladio said:

Off topic:
MR is on my ignore list, and now I remembered why

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Because you're a shit-for-brains?

(Don't worry mods, I'm ignored, he can't possibly be offended by this...)

(Or at least any more offended than I am by his remarks...)