List CRPG ingredients by their importance to you.

I prefer electronic media over printed ones, too - I do all my proofreading on a computer, of course, my XBox serves as a media center with a server for storing my digitized CDs and DVDs, but there is a certain very important advantage paper books still have over PC games:
I can take a paper book to the toilet and read it in peace. Same goes for reading in bed. I could do this with a handheld game, too, in some circumstances even with a notebook, but I doubt hubby would like the ruckus (provided he wanted to sleep). Even if I used a headset, the typing or button-smashing would cause the bed to wobble ^_^. And having a notebook sit on my lap while taking a dump? Not sure if I liked that.
 
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I hated Darklands!! Bored me to tears and I never came close to finishing it!! Magic Rules!! :)
Sure, it wasn't the 8th wonder, and it takes a lot of grinding through rather boring combat to finish, but a lot of the basic game mechanics were just awesome.

And magic is nice, but for once, I'd like an RPG where you can't throw magic around like it's confetti.
 
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Nah, I'll stick with the dedicated electronics. I'd rather dust them up and wear them out than my dedicated gaming stuff ='.'=

I do like electronic editions of books tho, easy to get some good titles for very cheap on Amazon instead of running to the store, and can put them on several devices.
 
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Most important for me is choosing my sex, I just can not roleplay a male character. I've tried in various games, but I am a woman and I just can not relate to a male character.

That was a reason for me why I never bought Kult.

And a paper handbook is for me a strong reason to actually buy a game. I consider it a kind of copy protection.

Especially meanwhile playing an RTS, task-switching between Acrobat Reader and my game isn't my cup of tea ...
 
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I'd like to see more RPGs in different settings than the usual medieval one. Eastern middle ages(Samurais etc), Norse Myth, Indians, older settings like Egypt, Greece, Rome, and so on and so forth. History is full of interesting times and settings, and there aren't that many games taking advantage of this (such as the TQ setting in a proper cRPG could be good).
 
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Yep, I agree about NWN2. It didn't end at all. I'm guessing that we'll find out more about our party in an expansion. I'm not sure that I want to play high level characters though. I generally hate AD&D past level 10 or so.

One thing that is nice about the different genre blendings is that I get to sample other types of games without having to pay for one. I enjoyed Deus Ex, Spellforce, System Shock 2, etc., for the blending in of different types of gameplay. I don't have time to play non-crpgs, but I enjoy crpgs that successfully blend in other genres.
 
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Oh, i agree. But NWN2 wasn't a proper ending, nor a happy one ;)

What makes you say that? I thought it was an 'ending' more than many games ... it wasn't traditional, but I wouldn't say it 'wasn't a proper ending' ...
 
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I didn't mind the ending at all, it wasn't a classic fairy tale "and so they live happily ever after", but the plot did come to an decent end.

A little note, let's not discuss this too much in the general forum, since this might be a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't played it.
 
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Sorcha Ravenlock
"After playing NWN2, I'll have to add: a proper ending. What happened to hapy endings anyway?"

I am glad it wasn't just me, I was sitting there waiting and my jaw just dropped, I just couldn't help but think, "Is this a joke? You must be kidding."
It wouldn't even necessarily have to be happy but that seems like complete nonsence, at least in reguards to the party.

Anyway yes I agree completly if I am going to be spending 30 more hours in a story based game, a very important ingredient (besides the bikinis) it sure the hell needs to have at least some decent sense of closure.
I mean unless the dev says upfront this is a Epsodic, comic book styled RPG, even then the cliffhanger should be at least modertatly well done.
 
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Just found an *very* interesting entry in the official Drakensang forum, German-language part. It's here. (I hope the link works.)

To sum this German-language entry up, it says that the poster found sone things in BG2 that annoyed him or her *very* much.

In short :

- In BG2 one can find items with full descriptions, items, that breath the term "legendary". They are often connected with a single person's name.

What annoys the poster is the fact that there is kind of an hiatus between their legendary state and the fact that they can be found in odd-looking, muddy dungeons. It's like as if I'd explore a long forgotten cave and find the crown of Queen Mary there, to exaggerate it.

He (or she) complains that this doesn't bear the image of a logical world where things have their places according to their importance, but rather these items are placed to give the gamer some kind of high reward for "clearing" a dungeon (the poster mentions Blizzards action-RPGs there).

So not the items themselves are important, but instead they are only placed there as some kind of reward. It doesn't really matter what kind of items they really are.

And what's worst, complains the poster, is that the most powerful and most legendary items can be bought in the shop round the corner.

- Dungeons often breath the look and feel as if a designer had thought "how can we guide this gamner through it ?". They are unrealistic, because they are only designed to bear monsters which are merely used as cannon-fodder, with the level of difficulty increaing further into the tunnel.

They do not look as if the constructor of these dungeons had a certain purpose for them in mind while constructing them.

- Dialogs not adapting the style of play : The poster writes that even when the gamer has played an "good" character and the reputation has reached great heights, the character still gets "evil" dialog options. he game doesn't see that the gamer wants to be nothing but "good".

- only armor : Everyone runs around with armor. No shirts, no jeans, no socks, no shoes, nothing. Only chain mail armor, plate mail armor, etc. .

- The poster would like to see a home for the character. He doesn't need to be a homless one, wandering round.

- The poster would like to have the ability to let a certain biography chosen for the character, his home town, the profession etc. . The way people react towards him should be different in his home town where everybody knows him, and according to the way he behaved before he went on journey, out of town.

I believe these are very interesting points not really considered in this depth so far.
 
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- Dialogs not adapting the style of play : The poster writes that even when the gamer has played an "good" character and the reputation has reached great heights, the character still gets "evil" dialog options. he game doesn't see that the gamer wants to be nothing but "good".

I have always found that to be an interesting conundrum ... you want to allow players to 'fall from grace' as it were ( ;) ), but also allow some depth of character development and role-play. Too often dialogue trees look like skill trees - once you've started down a path you pretty much have one choice that makes any sense, so what is the point of having the choice?
 
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Just found an *very* interesting entry in the official Drakensang forum, German-language part. It's here. (I hope the link works.)

To sum this German-language entry up, it says that the poster found sone things in BG2 that annoyed him or her *very* much.

In short :

- In BG2 one can find items with full descriptions, items, that breath the term "legendary". They are often connected with a single person's name.

What annoys the poster is the fact that there is kind of an hiatus between their legendary state and the fact that they can be found in odd-looking, muddy dungeons. It's like as if I'd explore a long forgotten cave and find the crown of Queen Mary there, to exaggerate it.



- Dialogs not adapting the style of play : The poster writes that even when the gamer has played an "good" character and the reputation has reached great heights, the character still gets "evil" dialog options. he game doesn't see that the gamer wants to be nothing but "good".

You can roleplay these as well. For example, Kleban "Blackstaff" Arunsen (pardon spelling but too lazy to look it up) gave a really nice item to a good adventuring friend who then handed it down to a niece/nephew to give them a hand in adventuring but apparently they couldn't cut it combat-wise.:D How about a famous adenturer wanting to settle down and sold his precious item to buy a farm and raise a family?

Regarding dialogue options, suppose your character just snapped under the stress of trying to save the world and go on a rampage? I know on a couple of occasions, I've wondered about snapping myself as my cursor lingered over the evil option:lol:

I never look a gift-horse in the mouth;)

I remember in BG2, I had Imoen stealing some stuff from a merchant and just rationalized that she *was* a thief but was doing it behind my back and it was for saving the world.;)

Celeste
 
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Not the story itself is important to me, but the way of telling it. I need dramturgy creating emotions, I want to remember impressive situations (and characters) that fill the world and it´s adventure with life and uniqueness. Isn´t this THE advantage over other genres?

As empty and unimportant as Oblivion could get, it had a cool „ending“ that was almost worth playing (and buying) it.

I like the „dark eye“ system, thus I like games where magic is NOT thrown around like confetti.

We read what is important to you, let me ask one question:

Would you like a game where

  1. ...you are NOT the official hero but accompany the „chosen one“? (you might still be important to his success)
  2. ...your character sometimes has no success – if it helps the dramaturgy?
  3. ...you have to do important choices again and again BUT KNOWING what consequences will come?
  4. ...you know that you NOT know something important or will NEVER be able to do a certain quest because of missing talent. Like Books or spells in a language you cannot and will not be able to speak?

To put it in a nutshell: would you like to experience a variety of bad emotions, fears and restrictions for dramatic reasons?
 
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First I want to point out that role-play gaming is a two-way street. To work, each side needs to do its part. In theater, that’s the writer and his troupe on the one hand and the audience on the other (as explained in Shakespeare’s Henry V). In gaming it’s the game maker on the one hand and the player(s) on the other. It’s an agreement, a kind of bargain, which must be made in order for it to work.

Here’s my list of ingredients that game makers need to put in a CRPG:

#1: The gaming world – The good stuff has to be in there or there’s just no point. There should be interesting characters to meet and cool places to go with plenty of heroism and adventure along the way. There must be drama (conflict). Essentially, the gaming world has to provide all the elements for good fantasy-adventure storytelling.

Most games force the story on the player via the main quest. That can work out very well. Ideally, though, the gaming world should provide plenty for the player to be able to create his own great stories.

#2: Roles – Whether the player chooses his role or it’s forced upon him, it needs to be good from the beginning, and it needs to grow. CRPGs should provide clear information about the character and his inventory (KOTOR did that best, IMO).

#3: Good Combat – Over the years, I’ve read plenty of boasts on forums from folks who claim they don’t give a hoot about combat. I’ve got news for them: You’re in the wrong genre. Combat has always been an essential element of RPG (not the hypothetical games nobody makes or plays, I mean the real CRPGs that are really made and played).

#4: Balance – First and foremost, CRPGs are games, and games should be challenging the whole way through. This may be the hardest part of all.

So CRPGs need to be set in fantastic worlds, provide wonderful roles, feature cool combat, and be challenging for the player throughout the game. Easy, right?
 
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@Fridi

1. Nope. I want to be the hero, though it doesn't have to be a beloved hero.
2. It would help if you clarified this bit. I don't know the word dramaturgy. If dramaturgy is just dramatic writing, then this could ok if used sparingly.
3. Again this is vague. If you mean if I'm forced into making some negative choices, that can work out ok only if those choices would not go against my role. A paladin isn't going to destroy a village even if a greater good would result. It's against his very nature.
4. Yes! Missing out on quests/items/subplots because of a lack of skill is the single greatest reason to replay a game.

As far as the nutshell...If the game is more about the drama than the character then the game is going to suck badly, IMHO. I play games to escape bad emotions, fears, and restrictions. Negatives should be weighed heavily against fun. If the negative feelings, story elements, etc become prevalent, then the game would be a drag to play.
 
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