Two Worlds II - Screens @ Worthplaying

DArtagnan said:

Beyond that, they've all had the "feature" that using a skill is enough to make it increase to max, but they forget to take into account WHAT you're using it for. So, you could potentially become the best fighter in the world by hitting mudcrabs over and over. Sure, progress is slowed with some skills (IIRC?) - but it's still what people tend to do, to develop their skills. The game needs to challenge you - and it needs to require you to defeat increasingly tough challenges to actually improve.

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Good point. (though… you know… the level scaling in Oblivion takes care of that somewhat effectively when all mudcrabs get replaced by xivilai! …. yeah….)
Seriously though, I think that should work in theory - since improvement comes with each successful hit, killing a mudcrab with one hit would only get you an insignificant improvement compared to killing a xivilai with a dozen hits.


I think that generally the problems you mentioned are more due to the size of the game than because of the skill system itself - ie. You could eventually achieve mastery of every skill in Risen too for example, if the game didn't just end at some point. (Maybe it could simply be fixed by requiring increasingly more effort to improve any skill so as to be similar to an xp based system where you need increasingly more xp to get to the next level) Anyway, I recognize that's no excuse in any case - bad implementation is bad regardless of any 'good intentions' and how well it works in theory.




Also - I'm very unimpressed by those screenshots (the ones that were the subject of this thread before it turned to one about Oblivion ) They look all right and well made - like pretty much all screenshots by any other game - but I don't see anything I haven't seen dozens of times before - ok, people can make forests... I get it!

Maylander said:

I wouldn't call exploiting your way through by becoming 100% invisible it a viable tactic. It's like the staff of the magi in Baldur's Gate2 which grants a crapload of buffs (especially if you keep re-equipping it!), or the good ol'turn-into-an-ooze-using-the-sewer-cloak-and-then-wand-spam-the-area-with-acid-damage-trick! How about killing dragons by using nothing but spike traps? Amazing, makes soloing a breeze!

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I couldn't stand BG beyond the starting screen so i don't know what you are talking about
Collecting all the chameleon stones is quite a challenge .

Maylander said:

I prefer not to cheese my way through games, and I do not consider a certain character "viable" just because there's a way to get them through to the end. Viable means you should be able to play them in their given role, and don't tell me Bethesda confused the role of a mage with something else - everyone that knows anything about fantasy knows the classic role of a mage.

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Well it is not perfect but it is better than let's say Morrowind ( only when talking about magic) where being a pure caster wasn't only non viable but next to impossible ( summon bow/arrows doesn't count as magic) .

Maylander said:

Oh, and as far as the AoE thing goes.. are you sure you tried that at a high enough level without a mod to kill scaling? Even with single target spells that had maxed out damage it took me ages and tons of magicka to bring down a single demon - I can't even imagine what it must be like to try AoE, considering how much more expensive they tend to be.

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Paralyse AOE works fine most of the time ; as i said before a caster can not be played as Gandalf the white , use illusion to become invisible , summon beasts , appear and disappear while throwing fireballs in between ; it can be done and it is fun as hell .
There many ways to play a Mage , i remember in a game i had maxed personality + the mask of a folk with +10 personality enchantment , when i was entering an Ayled ruin half the enemies were standing and smiling at me , then there was a spell i think named "frenzy" .

Tragos said:

Well it is not perfect but it is better than let's say Morrowind ( only when talking about magic) where being a pure caster wasn't only non viable but next to impossible ( summon bow/arrows doesn't count as magic) .

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Does enchanting count? Because that skill was extremely overpowered (though many people didn't notice because it improved very slowly if you didn't use it)

I found pure casters in Morrowind perfectly viable though, even without it.

holeraw said:

Does enchanting count? Because that skill was extremely overpowered (though many people didn't notice because it improved very slowly if you didn't use it)

I found pure casters in Morrowind perfectly viable though, even without it.

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Enchanting is a skill but still "restore magicka" was not possible ...
Also alchemy was an overkill but i never tried to brew anything .
I failed all my attempts to play a caster in MW anyway , probably you are a better gamer or i should only play archer / thieves

Tragos said:

Enchanting is a skill but still "restore magicka" was not possible …

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Neither was it necessary - enchanted items shot fireballs like machine guns! They didn't last long but they were extremely cheap and easy to make as many as you wished whenever you needed them.

Tragos said:

I failed all my attempts to play a caster in MW anyway , probably you are a better gamer or i should only play archer / thieves

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A better gamer in general maybe not but I absolutely loved Morrowind - I played it exclusively for about a year :lol:. (never cared for alchemy though)

I always found the TES systems worked reasonably well for me if I never thought about the mechanics, and avoided really high levels. They are easy as hell to exploit or break though, so from a design POV they were indeed broken, and hell on earth for compuldory min-maxers. There are good mods to fix that though, within the limitations of the system.

@Maylander-I can't disagree with your super-high level mage theory because I like playing with an established set of goals for each play session and rarely reach above level 20 before starting another character. It is extremely easy to win every combat with just magic. Oblivion knew mages would need easy mana restoration or mages would be easy to kill. That's why alchemy and welkynd stones provided unending mana supplies. The smart mage uses restore magicka potions at early levels, restore magicka/shield potions a little later and then more exotic combinations later. When push comes to shove, whip out a welkynd stone and an AOE drain fatigue spell. All enemies drop for several seconds, long enough to recharge and/or get out of melee range. If you're running an 85% shield spell, then melee enemies aren't going to hurt you much. This is all doable in pure vanilla. Why anyone would settle for vanilla now would be beyond me. The greatest thing about Oblivion is its modability. Play it your way. If you want the most powerful race/birthsign combination play a Breton-Atronach. If you want a super challenging game play a wood-elf melee fighter or Nord mage. Atronachs take a little while to get going but resisting 50% of all spells is almost cheating. Finger of the mountain is the Oblivion gate cleaner. It is devastating to Daedra.

I was done with Oblivion before the mod community became what it is today (there were a few mods out, most related to fixing the console interface on the PC version), just as I was finished with Two Worlds long before its final patches and Gothic 3 before the community patches hit (played mainly with 1.1 and 1.2 if I recall correctly). When it comes to new games, I have the patience of a dog that's desperate to go outside.

By finished I mean I've completed it enough times to put it on the shelf and not replay it for years.